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November 7, 2015
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Today was my first range trip since a tornado rearranged my life (and loading room)! Actually my second, on my first trip I pulled up to the clubhouse lacking some vital equipment. It is my hypothesis that the 38-55 was designed, to the best of my knowledge, with a plain based lead bullet. I have worked a bit with the Accurate 38-255L mould but it is a GC (gas check) design and I would prefer a PB (plain base) design for punching paper. Several years ago (2017) I ordered a NOE four-cavity Lyman clone 379279 mould with two GC cavities and two PB cavities. In April of last year I cast a pile of each and about two weeks before the tornado I loaded ten rounds with each bullet. They were by the door in my range bag when the tornado hit.
Fast forward through about eight months of home repair$ and I still don’t know the answer to my original question; if I ever figure it out I may have the makings for an article in the Collector but at this rate I’m just hoping to live long enough to answer this question. Today I determined a 1905 vintage 1894 has a bore of sufficient quality to help me reach a conclusion. It fired a three shot “fouling group” with an unidentified load that was very encouraging, in fact smaller than either five shot test group with the NOE PB/GC bullets. Today’s results suggest that this 38-55 likes a GC bullet. I’m confident the fouling shots were loaded with the Accurate GC bullet and the NOE GC bullet outperformed the PB bullet. It’s my firm belief that three shot groups lie and five shot groups mislead. Current plan is to fire the remaining five rounds of each load (GC/PB) and then try to develop a load for each bullet as an individual project.
In case you’re wondering, the Accurate 38-255L gas check shank is a bit undersize. a .381 bullet sizing die will not crimp a standard GC onto this shank as the GC’s are apparently designed for the smaller “38” bores common today. I can anneal a modern GC and it will then grip the shank of the Accurate bullet but I have better things to do than annealing GC’s. Maybe. I want to find a PB bullet load that works in the 38-55. I feel confident it existed 130 years ago, but I’d like to do it with smokeless powder. So far the leading contenders are 3031 and 4198. Thank goodness my rifle doesn’t seem to like 5744 in this cartridge except at the lower end.
Mike
Mike, In the “olden” days of some 20 years ago, I cast 255 grain .380 to .381 bullets from a single cavity Lyman mould that used a gas check. It shot fairly well in a model 1894 I no longer own. My gas checks were Lyman checks and those USED to be relatively cheap. Not so much now! I did try shooting that bullet bare of a check and it didn’t go well. The Lyman mould was the original for the .38-55 rifle bullet. If I was to try again I would stay with the gas check design, even though it would be more costly. Today it could be WAY more costly! Now I shoot my highwall (reproduction) with bullets from an RCBS double cavity mould for a 312 grain silhouette bullet that does not use a gas check. It is accurate in my reproduction highwall and does all I care to do. A plain base would be cheaper for the repeaters, but we live too short a time to mess with “cheap” and insufficiently accurate, in my opinion. Tim
November 7, 2015
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Tim-
Love those old Lyman moulds! GC’s are expensive but the Hornady checks come in a box of 1000 so I might as well use them. The loads I enjoy shooting in the 38-55 are well below the threshold where I feel a GC is necessary. This rifle was poorly refinished a long time back but the bore looks promising and yesterday’s targets are encouraging as well. I used this rifle to cull a spike several years ago so I know it is a decent shooter. it just seems odd that tis rifle or cartridge seems to show such a marked preference for a GC bullet when a PB bullet should perform well. I ran a few rounds thru an old SRC in 38-55 just for grins. Let’s just say it will be returned to wallhanger duty after I get it cleaned up. My days of using express sights are almost over.
Mike
Ive always shot gas check bullets out of my 38-55’s, never tried a plain base. Ive always had good luck with the accuracy. 5744 is my preferred load because it shoots more consistently over a chronograph but my alternates are IMR 3031 and SR4759 which work well too but tend to have higher spreads when it comes to velocity. My cast bullets with gas check weigh right at 255 grains, .380 bullet sizing die. Have not encountered an issue with the Hornady .375 gas checks out of my Accurate mold (38-255L/38-255SG) or with my sizing die, they all appear to compress firmly. Ive not shot any of the 38-255L bullets, only the 38-255SG. With the 38-255SG I have to trim all my cases (long Starline) to accommodate a 2.505″ OACL, otherwise this cartridge/bullet wont cycle through the receiver, due to the wider meplat and steeper ogive. The 38-255SG bullet is the one on the outside, 38-255L on the inside in the pic below. It drops them at .381. Ive got a second 38-255SG mould that drops them a little larger (.382″). All the bores Ive slugged are right at .380″ thus far, and they all shoot fine out of the 4-5 rifles/carbines I use.
1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member
"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy"... Billy Currington
November 7, 2015
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Good to know, Chris. Thanks. I don’t know why I tried the NOE 379279 bullet, it seems a bit heavy for this cartridge but the GC version shoots well. NOE hasn’t made it for years but it closely resembles his 379284. I had poor results with the Lyman 380681 PB and for some reason I never tried the Lyman 375449, I seem to recall it dropped a bit small but I bought it for my 375 Winchester Big Bore and it works great in that rifle. Haven’t cast any 375449 since 2/28/2015. It’s a shame I didn’t make a note of the diameter. I don’t use the crimp grooves on any of my cast bullets when using the long Starline brass. I generally just give them a slight roll crimp near the front edge of the top driving band. I suppose I might just as well trim them to standard length.
It appears I need to study on this awhile. Meanwhile I’ll take advantage of a pretty day tomorrow and shoot up what I have loaded!
Mike
TXGunNut said
I don’t use the crimp grooves on any of my cast bullets when using the long Starline brass. I generally just give them a slight roll crimp near the front edge of the top driving band. I suppose I might just as well trim them to standard length.Mike
I havent tried using a roll crimp at the driving band, with the 38-255SG bullets, You likely couldnt chamber them, never tried loading for the 38-255L bullets. Using the SG bullets, with case trimmed to 2.110″, the cartridge neck diameter with .380 bullet seated and crimped is .395″ and wont feed. The neck diameter can be no more than .392″ for it to chamber, and OACL 2.505″ to cycle. The only way I can get the cartridge to chamber is to remove the decapping pin from my sizing die and run the cartridge up and give it a little bump compressing the brass to bullet, resulting in a .392″ neck diameter. Im sure there are other ways of skinning the cat but I figured in the process it centers the bullet and maybe provides some consistency in neck tension. To each is own, right
1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member
"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy"... Billy Currington
November 7, 2015
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Good points, Chris. While the bores seem very consistent the chambers do seem to vary a bit in my 38-55’s. My 1911 vintage SRC seems to have a bit shorter chamber than my 1904 vintage OB standard rifle. I don’t recall my 1895 vintage 1894 being fussy. I generally use a very slight roll crimp as my sizer die provides adequate neck tension. I did have some rounds that would not chamber in the SRC so will probably need to check both rifles for fit after adjusting the length of those rounds. I’ve been working on the project sporadically for almost 11 years and only have basic load notes and casting notes for this project. Much of my early work was done with a modern Legendary Frontiersman rifle so I probably need to go back for another look.
But yes, .381 bullets in sturdy Starline brass is always a consideration. I have a supply of Winchester standard-length brass and I can certainly cast a pile of .377 375449 bullets to establish a baseline.
Mike
November 7, 2015
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You nailed it, Chris. I had to get the case mouth of the loaded rounds down to .395 to chamber them in my SRC. I shortened the OAL to 2.43 before I decided to kiss it with the sizing die. That helpful tidbit is now duly recorded in my load notes. Thanks!
Mike
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