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Jeff,
Great information on the model 75, and looking forward to your book. Like Don, the bolt action 22’s are out of my realm as well, but
I bought a beautiful example of one with killer wood yesterday at the OGCA show. As soon as I take some pictures I’ll post them. The serial number is 72261.
Thanks,
Al
Hi Al,
Congrats, looking forward to seeing the pictures!
Best Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
JWA said
deerhunter said
Hi JWA,
I picked up this model 75 Sporter from a fellow collector at the Oregon Arms Collectors show a couple months ago. I posted an array of photos prior to purchasing hoping to get your opinion, but I believe you were out on a Covid hiatus at the time. Anyway, it was too good of a deal to pass up for $850.00. My main question at the time was whether the rear Lyman receiver sight was correct–it has different adjustment knobs compared to most I’ve seen. It’s in beautiful condition and the wood has a nice tiger stripe figure to it as well. I believe the magazine is correct as well. The sling is an aftermarket Boyt brand, but looks to be a good high quality sling. I’ve seen some of these sporters going for really good money lately so I hope I did well on this one. Winchester 22’s are generally out of my realm, but I wanted to have a nice example of a bolt-action 22 LR for my collection. Your thoughts and evaluation will be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Don
Hi Don,
Sorry it took so long to get back to you. Yep, I was out with Covid and then came back and jumped straight into travel again. Just got home last night.
Thanks for the great pictures! Firstly, you got that rifle at a real bargain regardless of the minor issues with it. The bluing looks original and the stock only has a few minor dings.
Now, to answer your specific question, your Lyman sight has “Hunter” adjustment knobs. Although it is a 57E sight it is not the correct vintage or type of sight that came on the Model 75 Sporting rifle. Based on your serial number your rifle should have a Lyman 57ES sight, with “Target” knobs and the arm should be unmarked on top. The good news is the correct 57ES is about a $100 sight on ebay and your current sight is worth almost that much so to make it right won’t be much cost or effort.
The only other anomaly I noticed is that the sight inletting is a bit tight at the front of the Lyman sight. Factory Winchester inletting left a generous gap at the front of the sight for fitting tolerance. When I see a tight fit I usually suspect the rear sight has been added to an open sight model. Your rear sight blank on the barrel also appears to have a slight hump to it, if it is a Winchester blank for the 75S it should be flat across the top. Both of those little items lead me to suspect that your rear sight might have been added to an open sight model but closer examination is required to make that definitive. Photos of the stock rear sight inletting with the action removed and a closer view of the rear sight blank would help.
Again, regardless of those minor observations you paid less than the overall value of that rifle so you did well!
Best Regards,
Thank-you JWA for your evaluation. Here are a few more photos with the Lyman sight removed. I did some research in Nick Stroebel’s Old Gun Sights book and he mentions “The coin slotted “Stayset knobs” made their appearance by 1951.” Coincidentally, the serial number 77355 on my rifle dates to 1951 manufacture. What do you think?
Don
Hi Don,
I don’t see any glaring issues in your photos, the inletting looks ok from what I can see. The inlet ledge is usually a bit darker with the sealer that Winchester applied but that is not always the case.
The earlier Madis numbers for the 75 are a bit skewed (and we are also in the process of updating the WACA lookup for the 75 as well). Serial number 77355 was in the Polishing Room in 1954. Pauline Muerrle can give you a letter for the exact week/year as she has the polishing room records. https://paulinemuerrle.com/factory-engraving-records/
Now that I can see the back of the sight better it is in fact a 57ES so it is certainly possible it was supplied by Winchester although that was not the standard sight with Target knobs which was specified.
All in all, you did well and that is a nice looking rifle.
Best Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
JWA said
Hi Don,I don’t see any glaring issues in your photos, the inletting looks ok from what I can see. The inlet ledge is usually a bit darker with the sealer that Winchester applied but that is not always the case.
The earlier Madis numbers for the 75 are a bit skewed (and we are also in the process of updating the WACA lookup for the 75 as well). Serial number 77355 was in the Polishing Room in 1954. Pauline Muerrle can give you a letter for the exact week/year as she has the polishing room records. https://paulinemuerrle.com/factory-engraving-records/
Now that I can see the back of the sight better it is in fact a 57ES so it is certainly possible it was supplied by Winchester although that was not the standard sight with Target knobs which was specified.
All in all, you did well and that is a nice looking rifle.
Best Regards,
Thanks Jeff. Much appreciated. Thought it was interesting that the WACA lookup is using the incorrect Madis dates. Makes sense though since those records are with Pauline.
Don
Don,
When I put the S/N look-up tables together many years ago (for the Red Book), I tried to clearly indicate which models and serial number ranges were derived from the PR records by using bold & italic font. Unfortunately, there was no way to do that with the electronic tables I submitted for the website resource tool. Instead, I include this disclaimer statement;
“To the maximum extent possible, the dates of manufacture shown were obtained from the original Winchester Factory Polishing Room serialization records; otherwise estimates were made using multiple sources of information (e.g. George Madis, Ned Schwing, etc.), in which case the data was extrapolated to the best of our ability. This information is no substitute for obtaining a Winchester Factory Letter from the Cody Firearms Museum (available for certain models and serial ranges) which in addition to the Serial Number Application Date, normally provide the original Received In Warehouse Date and Date Shipped from Winchester factory.“
As more research is completed, the tables are slowly being refined for the models that the CFM does not have the records for. I am currently working on a set of revised (updated) tables to submit for the WACA website tool.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Thanks Bert. That makes perfect sense to go by the best information available. I just never bothered to read the “fine print.”
Don
Don,
The WACA tables are still (by FAR) the most accurate tables on the internet but, of course, there is still room for improvement which we are working on every day. Bert has done a tremendous amount of work to get us here but as with any endeavor, there are still things to add and tweak as the historical information surfaces. The Model 75 is case in point.
Best Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
That is a BEAUTIFUL specimen! They don’t get much better than that!
For your records, your rifle was made in 1950 and it will likely have either a ’49 or ’50 barrel date. In the upcoming book your rifle will be identified as a catalog # G7552R Type 3.
Congrats on your acquisition and thanks for the photos!
Best Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
I was surprised to learn about the missing “Winchester” receiver marking. Had to check my Model 75 Sporting Rifle serial no. 50593. It also has no roll stamp on the receiver. I’m sure now that the the subject has come up, several others will be soon discovered. “Fun Winchester Facts”! RDB
Roger,
I would love to see a photo of the left side of your receiver since Ben’s is the only one I have noticed that was missing the roll-marking.
Thanks!
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
Awesome, that works – thanks!
I will start checking some other serial numbers around that period as well. Thanks for posting!
Best Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
Just joined WACA last night. Got tired of being nagged to by friends?. I have met JWA in person and sold him the first 75 Sporter that I bought plus others. Don, I am so sorry to see that you purchased a messed up gun. Drive it down to Albany and I will pay you the $850 plus $12.50 for gas ?. Nice snag! See a lot of Rimfire folks on here and looking forward to learning a bunch.
Lonnie
Papalondog said
Just joined WACA last night. Got tired of being nagged to by friends?. I have met JWA in person and sold him the first 75 Sporter that I bought plus others. Don, I am so sorry to see that you purchased a messed up gun. Drive it down to Albany and I will pay you the $850 plus $12.50 for gas ?. Nice snag! See a lot of Rimfire folks on here and looking forward to learning a bunch.Lonnie
Welcome Lonnie,
It is about time! For those that don’t know him, Papalondog is one of the good guys. I have met him in person at Tulsa also 😉
I still have 2 of the pre-war 75 Sporting rifles from his collection and one of them (can’t remember which) is featured in the Model 75 book.
Best Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
November 7, 2015
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Welcome, Lonnie. Good to see another rimfire person around here. Looking forward to hearing more about your .22’s. I knew almost nothing about Winchester rimfires when I joined this forum and now they seem to be the focus of my collecting and shooting interests.
Mike
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