http://www.rimfirecentral.com/threads/wts-1936-winchester-62-5-spot-gallery.1356065/

44

Anthony said
I'm in agreement with both of you gents!
Even though I don't know about Jeremy's house money, but I figure from the other conversations regarding Cody this past month, Ben's suggesting Jeremy did well! Good for you!
 
Tony
  

No, that's a good price for sure. Paint could probably be cleaned up.

Tony, can you try a direct link to my PM's? Right-click the thread title and "copy link address"...try that? I still can't find it on RFC but I'm probably looking at the wrong forum... I may not be finding it because it's already gone!

Even though I don't know about Jeremy's house money, but I figure from the other conversations regarding Cody this past month, Ben's suggesting Jeremy did well! Good for you!

Tony

“Do you think Lucid lines would have made all of these based off antique designs and chose to just freelance a Winchester mirror not based off an antique design?” prove it! Go out and acquire something from Lucid that backs up your belief. One need look no further than eBay to see fake Winchester items that were created and being offered for sale as genuine items! 

Does scientific analysis dating mirror to the 1890s based off of materials used help prove that it is real? You have stated this but never offered any proof of this. Post the report you keep citing. Would seem an easy thing to do!

Yes the mirror was reframed in London over 30 years ago but that is something I can’t control. 

None of us control the condition items are in when we acquire them but they do in fact affect the value. 

I’m just not sure why you want to keep arguing. We have all stated we are happy to eat crow if this thing is real and worth millions. Just go out and prove it. Do the work yourself, hire someone to do it or send the thing to an auction house that will do the work. We would all be thrilled if it is anywhere close to worth what you think it is. Prove us wrong and good luck!

Maverick said

DB said
Maverick have you read the description that is on the back of the Lucid Lines 1973 remake?  It says " An innovation in antique mirror reproductions presented by Lucid Lines. Fine quality antique designs recapture the nostalgia of the past."  When I read that statement I interpret  it as meaning this mirror is remake of an antique design. Do you interpret it a different way?
  

"Recapture the nostalgia of the past", I could or would interpret that we made up a design that looks old antique in nature. That doesn't necessarily prove that the said reproduction mirror is an actual reproduction of anything original. More of late this is certainly the case, there are modern signs left and right that are total fabrications and not based on anything original other than words that were in use at the time. 
I think you need a much better provenance to proof the point of the mirror's originality. Just because the mirror/sign is marked Tiffany Co. Is it "THE" Tiffany Co.? What connection to Tiffany is there? 
It very well could be an old mirror, but was it made by Winchester and/of for Winchester during the height of the Winchester Era? Is it truly an antique made say even before 1934 when Olin purchased Winchester? How old is it actually?
If Lucid copied an original mirror, having documentation from them that they did so would add to the provenance of the piece. A lot of the other kinds of advertising memorabilia that is Winchester products have good provenance. Even if they are lacking obvious provenance type evidence, like of not having been sold through a company catalog. They still have a lot of other evidence that points to their origin.

Take Cartridge Boards for instance, they were never sold through the company catalog and a mere dealer promotional item made up by the company.  But factory original examples exist of them in the Cody museum. There are period photographs of them hanging on the wall behind someone in a factory office or a dealer's store display or things of that nature. 
Not to say somethings aren't obvious at all. But there is good evidence that points to a good history of the piece.
Take this ammo advertisement sign.
At first glance one might conclude that this was made up yesterday. But it sure looks old, is it really old? Well one might question such a thing if that is all one has to go by. But when you see said sign sitting in the foreground of a Winchester Factory Display at a 1898 Exhibition event. Then you start to lean towards the fact that is old and that it was made up for or by Winchester for their advertisement machine.

There are things about the "mirror" that are devalue it or hurt its value in my opinion. A couple I can think of off hand, one being lack of such provenance, two its obviously has a modern frame or been re-framed recently, and three to me it doesn't look that old. I'm not seeing a smoking gun that says, YES without a doubt this is an genuine original made by or made for Winchester item of the time period.
That is just my humble opinion on the matter.
Sincerely,
Maverick
  

Maverick,  in 1973 when Lucid lines made the Winchester mirror they also released other mirrors with the same sticker applied to the back. Levis, Olympia beer,Pabst, JCPenney, Budweiser, Prince albert,Camel,Pepsi,Coca-Cola, and Napoleon cigars. All of these are claiming to be from antique designs that recapture the nostalgia of the past. All of these have an antique version that can be linked to the 1973 rendition. Do you think Lucid lines would have made all of these based off antique designs and chose to just freelance a Winchester mirror not based off an antique design?  Does scientific analysis dating mirror to the 1890s based off of materials used help prove that it is real? Yes the mirror was reframed in London over 30 years ago but that is something I can't control. 

Like the owner admits in his add, it looks like the "5-SPOT", is touched up! $1,150.00 shipped! Open to offers!

Jeremy P said
The link won't load for me and I don't see the thread when I look around...does it still work for you?
  

Sorry about that Jeremy,

I re did it and marked it EDITED! I left and came back and it went bad again, so I put up the Rimfire Central Forum where it's listed. If anyone is interested and wants to get in touch with the owner, send me a PM, and I'll try to help out!

Let me know if that works, as it did for me.

Tony

This piece certainly looks the part. It also seems to, while not great, have a good provenance to it and it doesn't leave a lot of doubt towards its originality.

https://winchestercollector.org/magazines/202301/32/

Did someone at Lucid make up a mirror to mimic such a piece like this one? Notice the similarities and differences between such pieces. 

A piece like this one certainly give some credence to your theories about your mirror. But again I think you need more research and better hard data to cement the claims your making about your mirror. Especially concerning the asking price you are looking for.

You stated the mirror was made up for the "1893 Columbian Worlds expo". A picture of that mirror sitting in the background of a display at that expo would be good hard concrete evidence that its real. 

Even with that said, not having the original frame for such a piece that you can find and prove to be an original piece, significantly hurts its value in my mind. But I'm no expert in such matters.

Food for thought! 

Maverick said

"Recapture the nostalgia of the past", I could or would interpret that we made up a design that looks old antique in nature. That doesn't necessarily prove that the said reproduction mirror is an actual reproduction of anything original. More of late this is certainly the case, there are modern signs left and right that are total fabrications and not based on anything original other than words that were in use at the time. 

I think you need a much better provenance to proof the point of the mirror's originality. Just because the mirror/sign is marked Tiffany Co. Is it "THE" Tiffany Co.? What connection to Tiffany is there? 
It very well could be an old mirror, but was it made by Winchester and/of for Winchester during the height of the Winchester Era? Is it truly an antique made say even before 1934 when Olin purchased Winchester? How old is it actually?
If Lucid copied an original mirror, having documentation from them that they did so would add to the provenance of the piece. A lot of the other kinds of advertising memorabilia that is Winchester products have good provenance. Even if they are lacking obvious provenance type evidence, like of not having been sold through a company catalog. They still have a lot of other evidence that points to their origin.

Take Cartridge Boards for instance, they were never sold through the company catalog and a mere dealer promotional item made up by the company.  But factory original examples exist of them in the Cody museum. There are period photographs of them hanging on the wall behind someone in a factory office or a dealer's store display or things of that nature. 
Not to say somethings aren't obvious at all. But there is good evidence that points to a good history of the piece.
Take this ammo advertisement sign.
At first glance one might conclude that this was made up yesterday. But it sure looks old, is it really old? Well one might question such a thing if that is all one has to go by. But when you see said sign sitting in the foreground of a Winchester Factory Display at a 1898 Exhibition event. Then you start to lean towards the fact that is old and that it was made up for or by Winchester for their advertisement machine.

There are things about the "mirror" that are devalue it or hurt its value in my opinion. A couple I can think of off hand, one being lack of such provenance, two its obviously has a modern frame or been re-framed recently, and three to me it doesn't look that old. I'm not seeing a smoking gun that says, YES without a doubt this is an genuine original made by or made for Winchester item of the time period.
That is just my humble opinion on the matter.
Sincerely,
Maverick
  

Oh my.... a Winchester store would be so fun to walk thru... just to take it all in. Winchester was willing to just about sell anything to stay afloat during hard financial times... and advertising drove those sales... 

DB said

Maverick have you read the description that is on the back of the Lucid Lines 1973 remake?  It says " An innovation in antique mirror reproductions presented by Lucid Lines. Fine quality antique designs recapture the nostalgia of the past."  When I read that statement I interpret  it as meaning this mirror is remake of an antique design. Do you interpret it a different way?
  

"Recapture the nostalgia of the past", I could or would interpret that we made up a design that looks old antique in nature. That doesn't necessarily prove that the said reproduction mirror is an actual reproduction of anything original. More of late this is certainly the case, there are modern signs left and right that are total fabrications and not based on anything original other than words that were in use at the time. 

I think you need a much better provenance to proof the point of the mirror's originality. Just because the mirror/sign is marked Tiffany Co. Is it "THE" Tiffany Co.? What connection to Tiffany is there? 

It very well could be an old mirror, but was it made by Winchester and/of for Winchester during the height of the Winchester Era? Is it truly an antique made say even before 1934 when Olin purchased Winchester? How old is it actually?

If Lucid copied an original mirror, having documentation from them that they did so would add to the provenance of the piece. A lot of the other kinds of advertising memorabilia that is Winchester products have good provenance. Even if they are lacking obvious provenance type evidence, like of not having been sold through a company catalog. They still have a lot of other evidence that points to their origin.

Take Cartridge Boards for instance, they were never sold through the company catalog and a mere dealer promotional item made up by the company.  But factory original examples exist of them in the Cody museum. There are period photographs of them hanging on the wall behind someone in a factory office or a dealer's store display or things of that nature. 

Not to say somethings aren't obvious at all. But there is good evidence that points to a good history of the piece.

Take this ammo advertisement sign.

At first glance one might conclude that this was made up yesterday. But it sure looks old, is it really old? Well one might question such a thing if that is all one has to go by. But when you see said sign sitting in the foreground of a Winchester Factory Display at a 1898 Exhibition event. Then you start to lean towards the fact that is old and that it was made up for or by Winchester for their advertisement machine.

There are things about the "mirror" that are devalue it or hurt its value in my opinion. A couple I can think of off hand, one being lack of such provenance, two its obviously has a modern frame or been re-framed recently, and three to me it doesn't look that old. I'm not seeing a smoking gun that says, YES without a doubt this is an genuine original made by or made for Winchester item of the time period.

That is just my humble opinion on the matter.

Sincerely,

Maverick