tdnathens said
Hi; I keep reading that for Model 1897's the factory records before 1904 and after 1949 are missing, and the missing years are just estimates. Is this true?
Thanks; Tom
  

Where are you reading that? NO, it is not the truth!

The real truth is this; 

(1) The serialization (Polishing Room) records exist for the entire 60-year production run (July 1987 through December 1957.  The PR records provide the exact date that the serial number was stamped on the receiver frame, which is per Federal law, the official date of manufacture. 

(2) The original factory warehouse ledger records exist up through serial number 377999 (serialized on July 8th, 1907).  The warehouse ledger records provide the specific configuration details and the date the gun was received in the shipping warehouse from the Proofing Room.

Both the PR and Warehouse records are used by the Cody Firearms Museum (CFM) records office to create a Factory letter when ordered.  If the serial number is in the 378000 - 1027401, you can request a "SNA" (Serial Number Application) letter. This is a standard CFM factory letter:

What is known, is that nearly all of the previously published Model 1897 date of manufacture information in books and on the internet are grossly inaccurate.  The only known accurate DOM look-up information for the Model 1897 is the one found here on the WACA website (I created it) - Dates -Winchester Collector

Further, I just recently published an informative article discussing the entire 60-year production run for the Model 1897, and in that article, I provided the annual production table listing the year ending serial numbers.

2026 Spring (winchestercollector.org)

Bert

Thanks; Tom

tdnathens said
Thanks Bert for the information. Are these dates when they were made or when they were shipped from the factory?
Thanks, Tom
  

They are the manufacture date.  There are no surviving records to tell us when or where they were shipped.

Thanks, Tom

915757 - October 1940

1010601 - May 1953

D   417908  12ga  24" Cylinder

E  1010601  12ga  30"  Full

E  915757    16ga  26"  Modified 

Thanks;  Tom 

Bo Rich said
Burt, My Black Diamond has a plain barrel.  The pistol grip is the older round knob type.   I would say that it is 2X wood.  I can send you a picture if you like.  But,  will have to wait until Sunday, when I see my Son after Church to help me with that.
  

Is the bolt marked "TRAP GUN" ?  With a plain non-matted barrel and a round knob pistol grip, it sounds more like a "Fancy Finished" grade shotgun versus a Trap Gun.

Please send pictures when you can.

Bert

kem@meyersandshaulis.com said
I currently have 855580 in my collection.  I have one other Black Diamond 1897 that I need to check the serial number.
  

Are you saying that S/N 855580 is a Black Diamond Trap Gun?  Can you send me pictures of it?  Per the factory records, it was manufactured in November 1929.

Bert - Win1885@msn.com

Bo Rich said

  Bert,  At the time I only have two Model 1897s in my collection.  My Black Diamond letters as a trap gun, 12 gauge, 30 inch barrel, pistol Grip, Takedown, S/N 194721 Received in the warehouse January 30, 1903.  shipped January 31, 1903 order number 174788.  The second is a Field grade 12 gauge with a 28 inch Modified choke.  S/N; 503102.
  

The pistol grip butt stock is unusual for a Trap Gun as most of them had the English style straight grip.  Can you send me pictures of your BD Trap Gun?  Does it have a matted barrel? What grade is the wood e.g. 2X, 3X, or  ?

S/N 503102 was manufactured in September 1910.  It should have a Type 4 slide bar marking and a Type 7 barrel address marking.

Bert

Bo Rich said
Bert,  Yes my copy of the Winchester catalog dated January 2, 1931 only list the Model 97 in Standard Take-Down, Guard and Riot Gun, Solid Frame or Take Down, and Trench Gun Solid Frame only.  Am I correct in that in your survey the last Trap or Tournament grade with the black diamond inlaid in the butt stock was made in 1922?
  

Not quite.  There is one Tournament Gun (s/n 828398) that was manufactured with the black diamond stock in December of 1927.  That stated, my survey does appear to indicate that the black diamond stocks were discontinued as a standard feature sometime in late April of 1922.

Bert