Winchester Collector - Forum: Winchester Shotguns

Bert H. on Help ID H.R.O. markings on Model 1897

Tue, 27 Oct 2026 17:00:17 +0000

Horilka said
Hi Bert, I'm trying to get the S/N info. But the only thing it might help with is to see if 1906 is the date or other type of number.

Exactly... if the gun was actually made in 1906 (or slightly earlier).

Horilka on Help ID H.R.O. markings on Model 1897

Tue, 27 Oct 2026 16:42:22 +0000

Hi Bert, I'm trying to get the S/N info. But the only thing it might help with is to see if 1906 is the date or other type of number.

Bert H. on Help ID H.R.O. markings on Model 1897

Tue, 27 Oct 2026 16:38:15 +0000

Based on the slide bar marking, it appears to be a "D" series gun... what is the serial number on that gun?

I do not recognize the "H.R.O." marking.

Bert

Horilka on Help ID H.R.O. markings on Model 1897

Tue, 27 Oct 2026 13:34:01 +0000

Please help to ID these markings on regular length 1897, Full. Barrel has "H.R.O.", receiver "H.R.O. 1906."

evanderbeck62@gmail.com on Is this a phil klundt engraved gun

Tue, 27 Oct 2026 12:19:51 +0000

This gun had english walnut stocks on it when I got it i have never seen another like it. 2 pin milled back gun 30 in full I shoot it every week at trap my favorite model 12 I put custom roll over comb stock on it fit to me and I shoot it extremely good

evanderbeck62@gmail.com on Is this a phil klundt engraved gun

Mon, 26 Oct 2026 17:15:38 +0000

When I get home I will.try again for some pictures think I figured it out how to post

evanderbeck62@gmail.com on Is this a phil klundt engraved gun

Mon, 26 Oct 2026 02:17:23 +0000

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Bert H. on 1897 Black Diamond Damascus

Sat, 24 Oct 2026 22:42:27 +0000

Jim,

That is not a Damascus barrel on the gun in the picture you posted. It is a standard rolled steel barrel.

Bert

Jim91 on 1897 Black Diamond Damascus

Sat, 24 Oct 2026 20:51:52 +0000

Hi Bert,

here is a pic of the shotgun. Unfortunately, I only have this pic and one pic of the serial number at this time.

Bert H. on 1897 Black Diamond Damascus

Sat, 24 Oct 2026 19:30:38 +0000

Jim,

It is not possible at this time to answer your question. That stated, the total number manufactured was small.

Is the gun in question a Trap Gun, or a Fancy grade gun? 12-gauge? Barrel length? Pictures?

Bert

Jim91 on 1897 Black Diamond Damascus Production #'s

Sat, 24 Oct 2026 18:37:55 +0000

I recently found an 1897 Black Diamond Damascus shotgun (serial #436602) for sale. How rare if this gun?

Jim91 on 1897 Black Diamond Damascus

Sat, 24 Oct 2026 18:23:14 +0000

How many 1897 Black Diamond Damascus shotguns were produced? I found one for sale, but don't know that much about rarity (serial # 436602).

Zebulon on Winchester Model 24s

Fri, 23 Oct 2026 14:46:35 +0000

The BSS was a bargain in the Eighties. I bought a new 20 gauge IC/MOD back then and even the factory case to go with it, hunted doves and quail until I sold it in a moment of insanity.

Later tried to replace it with a Pigeon Grade Model 23 but never liked it as well. That was my last side-by-side until I found a 99.9% Parker Reproduction DHE 20 gauge 2-barrel set but it has been the only piece I hesitate to shoot lest I mar its beauty.

The 12 gauge BSS Sporter is as issued and even came with its beat up box, although the gun is pristine. The price was right because it's a 26" M/F 12 gauge. I think it is a candidate for tubes and a solid red pad, frankly.

Finally, the 1947 Skeet Gun 12 gauge, which has a little mild blue wear and an Old English pad. I don't know how anybody could shoot serious Skeet with the checkered butt it once wore. A prior owner installed the pad. It really likes the AA Low Recoil stuff.

That has been my double gun journey and I expect it wont go further.

James W on Winchester Model 24s

Fri, 23 Oct 2026 06:36:09 +0000

I picked up a 20 gauge BSS that was unfired and still new in the box about a year ago. I plan on taking it out for a round of sporting clays next month. I paid a premium price for it, but I wanted one badly. A couple months ago I picked up a 20 gauge Model 21 field grade. I had a 20 gauge years ago with the older wood, but I sold it. So, I always wanted another 20. I haven't used it yet. I sure love the 21s. They are really getting scarce at the shows. The OGCA Show in Wellington a few weeks ago had two. One was a 24 gauge. But a 21 sure takes my breath away. Always have. 🙂

Zebulon on Winchester Model 24s

Thu, 22 Oct 2026 19:52:08 +0000

Ian, the answer is brand name and, as always, demand. More buyers want a Model 21 than a Parker and vote with their pocketbooks. I don't know the relative quantities produced during their respective lifetimes. To some degree, it may have to do with Connecticut Shotgun Company's continued existence. Although anything but cheap, CSC will make parts and do repairs. Also, the Model 21 has a justifiable reputation for being robust and everything about a double shotgun is expensive to repair.

In my quest for a Model 21, I quickly learned the price of a small bore was out of my league. Small bore used to mean 20 gauge and smaller. Twenty years ago a 16 gauge could be had at a significant discount; you could buy one for less than a 12. Now small bore means 16 gauge and smaller.

The number of Model 21 guns produced, by gauge, tells the story. The overwhelming number produced in New Haven were 12 gauge guns. Relatively few 20 gauge guns were made and their price reflects that.

The solution for the budget-minded Model 21 seeker is what the English sportsmen learned a long time ago: even 7/8 ounce of shot at about 950-1000 fs works just fine from a 7 pound 12 gauge upland game. I can shoot it all day in my Skeet Gun. Whereas 1 1/8 oz at 1350 -1400 fs is not fun.

The difference between a high quality side-by-side 12 gauge and the same gun in 20 gauge is more than a few thousands of dollars.