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        <title>Winchester Collector - Forum: Winchester Shotguns</title>
        <link>https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-shotguns/</link>
        <description><![CDATA[Official Site of the Winchester Arms Collectors Association]]></description>
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                    <title>Ricklin on Trying to learn more about my 1897 </title>
                    <link>https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-shotguns/trying-to-learn-more-about-my-1897/#p181943</link>
                    <category>Winchester Shotguns</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-shotguns/trying-to-learn-more-about-my-1897/#p181943</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>Good deal, I may get one of those round tuits for WACA. The pad and the very slight wear where the slide runs on the mag tube were both major clues. Even in pictures original has a softer look and honest wear is impossible to fake. Old and original guns are not shiny. Light reflects more softly.</p>
<p>I think the best advice is as always, homework. When you get the rare opportunity to examine an unaltered original take note. And enquiring here is among the things smart guys do.</p>
<p>Bravo on posting pics from the git go, makes all the difference. You have a neat old 97 there, do avoid steel shot. You might consider opening the choke as the gun has limited usefulness today. While the old boys at Winchester bored some great chokes, those chokes were designed for fiber wads and cardboard. Modern plastic wads shoot about one choke tighter in the old guns, that makes a Winchester full mighty tight.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I like Mike Orlen in MA. for barrel work he is all that, fast, reasonable and superb work. Were that my gun? Cut it back to 26 or 27 and have Mike screw choke it. The gun is a shooter so shoot the darn thing. </p>
<p>I like screw in chokes on classic guns, keeps the look the same as ever, and makes the gun FAR more useful. You could also give trap shooting a go, if your personality leans toward perfection give trap a go.</p>
<p>Mike did a real nice old Remington 31 I had, the true ball bearing pump gun, yes smoother than an M12. Mike cut it back to 27 moved the bead and supplied 3 chokes. Once almost useless now a fine old all rounder. Less than 250 bucks just a few years ago. You only need to ship the barrel which is not a gun.</p>
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					                    <pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2026 18:55:19 +0000</pubDate>
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                    <title>Zebulon on Gun stock carving </title>
                    <link>https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-shotguns/gun-stock-carving/#p181941</link>
                    <category>Winchester Shotguns</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-shotguns/gun-stock-carving/#p181941</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>"Everybody to his own choice" etc. But I have yet to see a Winchester with a carved stock that didn't wear the Mark of Caine, priice-wise. A lot of it is ghastly.</p>
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					                    <pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2026 17:47:29 +0000</pubDate>
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                    <title>Bert H. on Trying to learn more about my 1897 </title>
                    <link>https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-shotguns/trying-to-learn-more-about-my-1897/#p181933</link>
                    <category>Winchester Shotguns</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-shotguns/trying-to-learn-more-about-my-1897/#p181933</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">
<p><strong>Ricklin said </strong><br />
Thanks for that Bert. I could not get the link to work. From the pics it does look like a high quality refinishing job. I know enough to be dangerous. The gun in question looks hot blued to my eye. Were not the early 1897's rust blued?<br />
Funny, a British best gun can go back to it's maker and be refinished and be worth more after. Not the case here in the good old USA where manufacturer's don't offer refinishing. Maybe Colt still does? <br />
I don't know the status of factory records on the 1897, there is darn little for the model 12. Be really wary of fakes when collecting Winchester shotguns in general. There are lots of folks here way more knowledgeable than myself. Always post pics and serial numbers when enquiring.<br />
  </p>
</blockquote>
<p>As a WACA Guest, you do not have access to the Winchester Collector magazine archives (you need to be a WACA Member in good standing).  I will encourage you to become a full WACA member versus a Guest.</p>
<p>Yes, the pre-1939 Model 1897s were manufactured with a "rust" blued barrel and magazine tube.  The receiver frames were "machine" blued.</p>
<p>The factory ledger records exist (at the CFM records office) for the Model 1897 through serial number <strong>377999</strong>.  The Polishing Room (PR) serialization records are complete through the end of production (s/n 1024701) on September 30th, 1957.  For the Model 1912 (12), only the PR records exist.</p>
<p>Bert</p>
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					                    <pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2026 16:04:42 +0000</pubDate>
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                    <title>Ricklin on Trying to learn more about my 1897 </title>
                    <link>https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-shotguns/trying-to-learn-more-about-my-1897/#p181928</link>
                    <category>Winchester Shotguns</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-shotguns/trying-to-learn-more-about-my-1897/#p181928</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for that Bert. I could not get the link to work. From the pics it does look like a high quality refinishing job. I know enough to be dangerous. The gun in question looks hot blued to my eye. Were not the early 1897's rust blued?</p>
<p>Funny, a British best gun can go back to it's maker and be refinished and be worth more after. Not the case here in the good old USA where manufacturer's don't offer refinishing. Maybe Colt still does? </p>
<p>I don't know the status of factory records on the 1897, there is darn little for the model 12. Be really wary of fakes when collecting Winchester shotguns in general. There are lots of folks here way more knowledgeable than myself. Always post pics and serial numbers when enquiring.</p>
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					                    <pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2026 15:00:43 +0000</pubDate>
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                    <title>Bert H. on Trying to learn more about my 1897 </title>
                    <link>https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-shotguns/trying-to-learn-more-about-my-1897/#p181911</link>
                    <category>Winchester Shotguns</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-shotguns/trying-to-learn-more-about-my-1897/#p181911</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>Positively a refinished gun.  Both the wood &#038; steel have been refinished, and the recoil pad is an aftermarket alteration.  If the stock was cut (shortened) to install the recoil pad, that further degrades to gun.</p>
<p>What is the serial number?  With it, I can determine the precise date of manufacture (day, month, &#038; year).  Does it have a matted barrel and receiver top?</p>
<p>Have you read my recent article - <a href="https://winchestercollector.org/magazines/202603/" target="_blank">2026 Spring (winchestercollector.org)</a></p>
<p>Bert</p>
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					                    <pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2026 02:25:27 +0000</pubDate>
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                    <title>MidwestCrisis on Trying to learn more about my 1897 </title>
                    <link>https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-shotguns/trying-to-learn-more-about-my-1897/#p181905</link>
                    <category>Winchester Shotguns</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-shotguns/trying-to-learn-more-about-my-1897/#p181905</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>I didn’t see a picture of the barrel address.  The action bar stamps don’t look like they have been polished.  The receiver polish looks good to me, but I have no clue.  Just my observations    </p>
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					                    <pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2026 00:53:29 +0000</pubDate>
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                    <title>kevindpm61 on Trying to learn more about my 1897 </title>
                    <link>https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-shotguns/trying-to-learn-more-about-my-1897/#p181904</link>
                    <category>Winchester Shotguns</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-shotguns/trying-to-learn-more-about-my-1897/#p181904</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>I love the 1897 black diamond shotguns; I suspect that it has been refinished. The ventilated recoil pad is a strong indicator of this. </p>
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					                    <pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2026 00:25:51 +0000</pubDate>
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                    <title>MidwestCrisis on Trying to learn more about my 1897 </title>
                    <link>https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-shotguns/trying-to-learn-more-about-my-1897/#p181903</link>
                    <category>Winchester Shotguns</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-shotguns/trying-to-learn-more-about-my-1897/#p181903</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Chuck.  You may have a real gem there.</p>
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					                    <pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2026 00:08:38 +0000</pubDate>
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                    <title>Chuck on Trying to learn more about my 1897 </title>
                    <link>https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-shotguns/trying-to-learn-more-about-my-1897/#p181901</link>
                    <category>Winchester Shotguns</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-shotguns/trying-to-learn-more-about-my-1897/#p181901</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>The shotgun looks brand new if not refinished at some time.  You need someone to take a better look at it for you.  Hopefully one of the experts will respond.</p>
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					                    <pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2026 23:32:30 +0000</pubDate>
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                    <title>Chuck on Gun stock carving </title>
                    <link>https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-shotguns/gun-stock-carving/#p181899</link>
                    <category>Winchester Shotguns</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-shotguns/gun-stock-carving/#p181899</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>You might contact FEGA. The firearms engraving guild of America.  Or the ACGG American custom gunmakers guild.  These organizations may be able to help you.</p>
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					                    <pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2026 23:22:01 +0000</pubDate>
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                    <title>Scotlund1 on Trying to learn more about my 1897 </title>
                    <link>https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-shotguns/trying-to-learn-more-about-my-1897/#p181898</link>
                    <category>Winchester Shotguns</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-shotguns/trying-to-learn-more-about-my-1897/#p181898</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">
<p><strong>Ricklin said </strong><br />
Reblued and refinished means no collector value. That's my take but will defer to those more learned than I. What is the barrel length and choke? You have a nice family heirloom shooter IMO. Take good care of it for the next generation. The auction sites like Gunbroker make common guns pretty easy to value. Do not waste time with asking prices, the seller may know less about 1897 shotguns than you do. Look at the closed auctions, green means sold.<br />
  </p>
</blockquote>
<p>Thank you this helps. It is 30” full choke and seems to have all the right numbers. I am not sure about the refinishing. It was originally my great grandfathers gun and really had very little use. Between my dad and I we have done nothing to it for last 50 plus years. Just sat in nice gun cabinets. Action is all very tight which is good. I hope to find and expert who can determine if bluing has been redone. It kind of make sense it was as it is 114 year old.</p>
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					                    <pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2026 23:19:06 +0000</pubDate>
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                    <title>Ricklin on Model 12 safety </title>
                    <link>https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-shotguns/model-12-safety-1/#p181897</link>
                    <category>Winchester Shotguns</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-shotguns/model-12-safety-1/#p181897</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>I don't think for a minute that safety is original Winchester. Really common to find M12's with an aftermarket safety installed at some time in the distant past. Don't think I have not seen a big head safety quite that big headed before. The darn thing has a swelled head. It is after all mounted on the finest pump shotgun ever built.<img class="spSmiley" style="margin:0" title="Kiss" alt="Kiss" src="https://winchestercollector.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-smileys/sf-kiss.gif" /> Easy peasey to swap an original back in if desired.</p>
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					                    <pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2026 22:42:25 +0000</pubDate>
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                    <title>Jeremy P on Gun stock carving </title>
                    <link>https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-shotguns/gun-stock-carving/#p181896</link>
                    <category>Winchester Shotguns</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-shotguns/gun-stock-carving/#p181896</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>I know a guy in Missouri you can reach out to, name is Coty Winsauer, I'll PM you his info.</p>
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					                    <pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2026 22:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
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                    <title>Ricklin on Trying to learn more about my 1897 </title>
                    <link>https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-shotguns/trying-to-learn-more-about-my-1897/#p181895</link>
                    <category>Winchester Shotguns</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-shotguns/trying-to-learn-more-about-my-1897/#p181895</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>Reblued and refinished means no collector value. That's my take but will defer to those more learned than I. What is the barrel length and choke? You have a nice family heirloom shooter IMO. Take good care of it for the next generation. The auction sites like Gunbroker make common guns pretty easy to value. Do not waste time with asking prices, the seller may know less about 1897 shotguns than you do. Look at the closed auctions, green means sold.</p>
]]></description>
					                    <pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2026 22:27:04 +0000</pubDate>
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                    <title>Scotlund1 on Trying to learn more about my 1897 </title>
                    <link>https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-shotguns/trying-to-learn-more-about-my-1897/#p181892</link>
                    <category>Winchester Shotguns</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-shotguns/trying-to-learn-more-about-my-1897/#p181892</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>I know it is Black diamond and in great shape. In our family for close to 80 years. Mfg in 1911. No rust or scratches in metal and serial numbers match on both pieces. Trying to figure out best way to get it worth and providence </p>
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					                    <pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2026 22:12:33 +0000</pubDate>
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