steve004 said

Bert H. said

Zebulon said
Steve,  The big difference (to me) is that nosecap is fitted with a non-detachable swivel, whereas the 71 and 64 - and I assume the 65, if special ordered, were furnished with Super Grade detachable swivels. 
Bert,  so there was never a catalogued "Special" style of the M65. No wonder I wasn't sure what to call one fitted up like a Deer Rifle. 
Both:  the nose cap illustrated by Steve appears to have a swivel base welded or sweated on.  
The 71 and 64 nose caps with swivel bases (at least the two in my possession) seem to be of a single piece, as if forged or machined that way. Is that just because of careful filing and finishing or are at least some made with integral bases?
  

Correct... Winchester never officially cataloged a Model 65 "Special" but that is how they labeled the end label of the cardboard box.  
The Model 64 and Model 71 nose caps were dovetailed for the SG swivel base.
Bert
  

What kind of swiveled nose cap for a M53?  This one fits on a M53 perfectly.  
  

I have not ever encountered or documented a Model 53 fitted with sling swivels.  A very small number of them were equipped with sling eyes.  The nose cap you have was most likely made for a Model 1892.

Bert

Bert H. said

Zebulon said
Steve,  The big difference (to me) is that nosecap is fitted with a non-detachable swivel, whereas the 71 and 64 - and I assume the 65, if special ordered, were furnished with Super Grade detachable swivels. 
Bert,  so there was never a catalogued "Special" style of the M65. No wonder I wasn't sure what to call one fitted up like a Deer Rifle. 
Both:  the nose cap illustrated by Steve appears to have a swivel base welded or sweated on.  
The 71 and 64 nose caps with swivel bases (at least the two in my possession) seem to be of a single piece, as if forged or machined that way. Is that just because of careful filing and finishing or are at least some made with integral bases?
  

Correct... Winchester never officially cataloged a Model 65 "Special" but that is how they labeled the end label of the cardboard box.  
The Model 64 and Model 71 nose caps were dovetailed for the SG swivel base.
Bert
  

What kind of swiveled nose cap for a M53?  This one fits on a M53 perfectly.  

Zebulon said
Steve,  The big difference (to me) is that nosecap is fitted with a non-detachable swivel, whereas the 71 and 64 - and I assume the 65, if special ordered, were furnished with Super Grade detachable swivels. 
Bert,  so there was never a catalogued "Special" style of the M65. No wonder I wasn't sure what to call one fitted up like a Deer Rifle. 
Both:  the nose cap illustrated by Steve appears to have a swivel base welded or sweated on.  
The 71 and 64 nose caps with swivel bases (at least the two in my possession) seem to be of a single piece, as if forged or machined that way. Is that just because of careful filing and finishing or are at least some made with integral bases?
  

Correct... Winchester never officially cataloged a Model 65 "Special" but that is how they labeled the end label of the cardboard box.  

The Model 64 and Model 71 nose caps were dovetailed for the SG swivel base.

Bert

steve004 said
I wonder if this would be the right swivel nose cap.  Probably not as it wouldn't match the rear swivel.  I know this fits a Model 53, so probably would fit a Model 65.
  

No, it would not be for a Model 65 Special

This is the correct sling base...

Bert

Bert,  so there was never a catalogued "Special" style of the M65. No wonder I wasn't sure what to call one fitted up like a Deer Rifle. 

Both:  the nose cap illustrated by Steve appears to have a swivel base welded or sweated on.  

The 71 and 64 nose caps with swivel bases (at least the two in my possession) seem to be of a single piece, as if forged or machined that way. Is that just because of careful filing and finishing or are at least some made with integral bases?

James Fenderson said
Barrel address roll marking are not in the correct location if has the correct short  forarm  i have a 16 inch 94 it in front of the barrrel band 
  

James,

I have seen several Model 1894 and Model 94 16-inch Trappers.  The early (Model 1894) usually have the roll marking forward of the rear barrel band, but many of the later (Model 94) 16-inch Trappers have the roll marking located behind the rear barrel band.  The Trapper in question is one of the later production Model 94s.

Bert

Zebulon said

The Super Grade nosecap, rear inletted base, swivels and strap package was a factory special order feature for the Standard M64. I owned one. Probably for the M65, too. But Fagin went at this Wonder bass-ackwards. 
  

That is not a completely accurate assertion.  The Model 64 Deer Rifles were standard with the Super Grade sling swivels as were as the Model 71 Special rifles.  For the Model 65, the "Special" rifle was a special order item, and they were indeed identically configured the same as a Model 64 Deer Rifle or a Model 71 Special (checkered stocks, capped PG, and SG swivels).  Bolt peep sights were standard for the M65 218 Bee, M64 219 Zipper, and the pre-WW II Model 71 rifles.

In regard to the Model 65 rifle in question, there are few issues that I see with it.  The stock set appears to be correct for a "Special", but the rifle has been altered.   The first (big) issue is the missing No. 98C bolt peep sight. The second issue is the replaced forend nose-cap and the after-market front sling mount. The last issue is the replacement front sight hood.  On a positive note, I do not believe that this rifle has been reblued (the proof mark stamps on the frame ring and barrel are crisp and off color as they should be).

Bert

My guess is this is a Standard style gunsmithed into a pseudo-Special. 

The black backdrop precludes close examination. If it were real, it should hammer for well over 3K. 

The Super Grade nosecap, rear inletted base, swivels and strap package was a factory special order feature for the Standard M64. I owned one. Probably for the M65, too. But Fagin went at this Wonder bass-ackwards. 

James Fenderson said
The gun is not legit tThere are two red flags wrong fore arm and the barrel marking are in the wrong place and look at pitchers 9-13 you see the sight has been put on this gun
  

I disagree.

Unless you have exceptionally acute (x-ray) vision, the quality (resolution) of the photos (9, 13, & 22) is not sufficient enough to determine if the front sight post was installed after the fact.  Based on its position on the barrel, it appears correct.

The barrel address roll marking in is the correct location for a 16-inch barrel. On the 14" and 15" barrels, it was moved forward of the barrel band.

Bert

One to stay away from!