antler1 said

Maverick I would agree with this modified statement you have made. Your original statement said " cover up a thumbnail" implying grouping at 400 yards. I also agree with Bill that most hunters should not be taking 400 yard shots at game 
  

Huh. What size gloves do you wear? I've got a decent sized thumbnail! At least in the 1/2" to 3/4" in sized range.

I mean I know most guys here aren't the biggest fans of the U.S.R.A.Co., as we all generally like to collect the Pre-64 Winchesters. But 30 years ago we bought a brand new out of the box USRACo / "Herstal Group" / Winchester Model 70 chambered in 300 Win. Mag. in 1996 when the BOSS system was introduced. And it could cover up your pinky finger at 400 yards. We didn't have to do much to adjust it to its sweet spot. That rifle for whatever reason liked the Number 6 setting. Once we found it, we rarely ever touched it again. In fact only reason we ever needed to readjust it was because we took it hunting and banged it up. I recall one time on a deer drive running dogs, I flung slap off a four-wheeler rack coming around a curve too fast. Thought I surely messed it up that time. My dad tried dropping it off a mountain elk hunting in Colorado. It along with the Leupold scope just kept on trucking.

I suppose we may have gotten lucky with that one rifle though. I had bought another late production USRACo made in the year 2004, Model 70 chambered in 300 WSM. Only problem I had with it is USRACo's version of the Highly checkered stock. The dam fancy deluxe stock cracked on me while I was firing, actually in the act of taking a deer. I raised up to shoot a buck and realized real quick something was off and I (had to) emptied the magazine at the deer until I could get it down. Ended up having to run across the field and get up on it close to finish him. I got real lucky with finishing him. Anyways ended up getting a replacement stock and the rifle is doing fine now. They had a bad batch of stocks, wood selection, installed it incorrectly or something else was wrong with the original stock.

Louis Luttrell said

BTW... My only "quibble" with the rifle is that the sheet metal slide in the 22G rear sight has been altered (sight notch cut into a deeper "V") and the stop screw replaced.  The sort of thing you might do when sighting in a gun with your desired combination of ammunition and distance.  EASY "fix" if you only want "factory original"...  
Best,
Lou
  

Ben was kind enough to send me the proper slide and stop screw which I replaced tonight.

Thanks Ben! and…Thanks Lou for your keen eye!

IMHO, one to two inch groups at 100 yds. is perfectly acceptable accuracy for a sporting rifle

Anthony #5411 said
Very Cool Bryan!
 
Tony
  

Thanks Tony!!

The Contest Contender list is starting to grow!

https://sites.google.com/view/44winchester/doc-pardee-club

Maverick said

P.S. I'll also agree that most people can't hit the broad side of a barn! Let alone the door hinge screw on the barn door. 
  

That's me with iron sights.  Past about 50 yds I really can't see where on the target I am actually holding.  

Regarding pre-64 M70 accuracy... 

I have an old factory document (from 1957) that gives the minimum acceptable group size expected at 100 yards from either G52C or G70C TARGET rifles.  The average of ten 5-shot groups was not to exceed 1.25" for the M70.  There is a later (not dated) penciled in change to 1.5".  I do not have a similar document related to the factory's accuracy expectation for Standard and Featherweight barrels...  I suspect it was about the same...

My anecdotal experience has been that, with the exception of 220 Swift, pre-64 M70 Standard rifles are routinely capable of 1.25" to 1.5" 100 yard accuracy with good ammo.  The Featherweights I've shot were, on average, not that good but typically under 2".  The exception is the 220 Swift, b/c I've yet to shoot one (with our handloads) that wasn't sub-MOA at 100 yards and under 1" at 200 yards. 

My experience may not be typical, but it is what it is...  YMMV...

Lou

Maverick said
I stand by my statement. As long as you have a good bore, factory ammunition, a solid rest or even a "ultra solid rest" like with a "lead sled". There is no certainly no reason you shouldn't be able to keep it inside the 10 ring on a target at 400 yards. Depending on the brand of target the bullseye is likely 1 to 3 inches. Most especially with a scope, you should be able to all day long to hit the mark. Or suffice to say the rifle can hit that mark. The user of the rifle is a different story, of course. In computer terms its what I would call a PICNIC. When there is a problem with a computer it is often not a computer problem. PERSON IN CHAIR NOT IN COMPUTER. It is often said when the person themself needs to go on a little Picnic, take a break, go to lunch and when they come back Yogi the Bear (I'm Yogi in the scenario) has magically come in and stole the problem out of the computer.  
Now granted hitting a wild game animal is another ballgame all together. 
Sincerely,
Maverick
P.S. I'll also agree that most people can't hit the broad side of a barn! Let alone the door hinge screw on the barn door. 
  

Maverick I would agree with this modified statement you have made. Your original statement said " cover up a thumbnail" implying grouping at 400 yards. I also agree with Bill that most hunters should not be taking 400 yard shots at game 

Now granted hitting a wild game animal is another ballgame all together. 

Sincerely,

Maverick

P.S. I'll also agree that most people can't hit the broad side of a barn! Let alone the door hinge screw on the barn door. 

I doubt that any of you contributing to this thread would qualify as "the average hunter" because you shoot too much! 

I don't have the opportunity to practice shooting at more than 200 yards and that has only been since last year. Public ranges where I live are limited to 100 yards and they are closing as urban sprawl moves further out each year. 

I thought this thread concerned Winchester Model 70 accuracy. My own experience has been limited to:

1. 1950 Super Grade 30/06 with a floated barrel that subsequently had a splot of bedding compound placed just aft of the forearm tip. With its Lyman 48 WJS, it will.shoot into between 1.25 to 1.5 inches with ammunition it likes. 3 shot groups from sandbags. I'm not the original owner. 

2. A 1956 Featherweight 30/06 with an unmessed with factory bedding. About 1.5 inches from sandbags, scoped.

3. A 1951 Standard .270 that had been shot quite a bit before I got it. Scoped and from bags, my best 3 shot group was 1.1 inches. 

4. A 1966 Standard 243. Scoped and from bags it would average closer to an inch. It was virtually new when I got it. 

A nicer 1960 Featherweight in 30/06 that hasn't been tested at 100 yards yet.

A 1948 Model 70 action rebarreled with a heavy 26" SAKO 22-250 barrel and bedded in a 1954 Super Grade stock I still need to get chamber cast! 

A 1980 375 Holland I haven't tried at 100 yards yet

A 1980 African I haven't shot at all. 

So, my experience in the field with a Model 70 is modest. With effort, perhaps a pre'64 in a major hunting caliber will shoot closer than mine will. 

But I don't think the average hunter, who shoots 10 rounds to check zero once a year, has any business shooting at game animals at long range. Long range for most is more than about 200 yards from a rest and probably 75 yards offhand. From what I have observed. 

The finest instrument any aspiring hunter can get is a good quality 22 repeater,  lots of ammunition, and lots of OFFHAND practice.  It will.work wonders, in time. 

antler1 said
"There’s no reason on a solid rest at 400 yards you should be about to cover up your thumbnail all day long with a scope on. As long as nothing is wrong with your rifle. " Maverick's Quote
  

and you said ?? 

I would lay money that not 1 in 1000 shooters could lay 3 to 5 shots into a thumbnail size group at 400 yds. Either misinformed or never tried it.

R.Marshall said
Thats awesome! Thanks for your help Bert. I guess I got lucky on this one. 
  

It is most certainly a fine looking Model 1894

antler1 said

Maverick said

Chuck said

Zebulon said
 A 2 minute rifle will easily stay within an 8 inch circle at 400 yards. Four hundred yards is just one hell of a long way to be shooting at a live, unwounded game animal. 
  

I believe if you have a good rifle and load and you have practiced at 400 yds or further, 400 yds is not too far.  Most hunting rifles can shoot well out to 400 yds.  I don't hunt anymore but I do shoot way farther than 400 yds every week.  I'd feel comfortable beyond 400. 
  

I hope you gentlemen are talking about a 8 Inch Circle free-handed. And are we talking open sights or a scope?
There's no reason on a solid rest at 400 yards you should be about to cover up your thumbnail all day long with a scope on. As long as nothing is wrong with your rifle. Or yourself for that matter (eyesight being a huge factor). Depending on what part of the country you are in most people don't shoot past 100-200 yards, especially here in the south. Usually they don't have the land to shoot much further or its not open enough and has too much cover to see much past 100 yards. I have some places I hunt there are a mix of hardwood bottoms, piney woods, and open agricultural fields. 
I shot a 8pt buck year before last at 375 yards in a open cornfield and you'd thought I shot it off the moon the way some people around me hunt.
Each there own though. Certainly don't shoot any further or rather any distance at all that you're not comfortable doing so.
Sincerely,
Maverick
  

I would lay money that not 1 in 1000 shooters could lay 3 to 5 shots into a thumbnail size group at 400 yds. Either misinformed or never tried it.
  

why do guys like you have to get on the band wagon about that kind of accuracy ??? Who said that other than you ? I didn't and nobody else.