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                    <title>steve004 on An old wivestail???</title>
                    <link>https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-rifles/an-old-wivestail/#p179030</link>
                    <category>Winchester Rifles</category>
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					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>I just pulled this form the IIA Forum (2008).  This is a question that has often been considered and discussed.  We've done it here over the years but I can't find when.  </p>
<p>Anyway, interesting info. here:</p>
<p>The Winchester .32 Special cartridge was introduced in the Winchester Catalog 69, June 1902, for use in the Model 94 Winchester Rifle.</p>
<p>Firstly, a note appearing in the section on the 94 indicates that the .25 and .30 calibers for this rifle cannot be used with black powder. There is no further explanation with that particular note. They are referring, of course, to the .25-35 and .30-30 cartridges. They do cover, in the later page, the fact that the .32 WS is suitable for blackpowder loads.</p>
<p>Even though Winchester only offered the cartridge in smokeless powder loads, they offiered brass and bullets for reloading the round and suggested a load of 40 grains of black powder. While they did not offer, in that catalog, all of the specifications and reasons for the round, it is covered well in other sources.</p>
<p>Regarding being used with black powder, “this character was obtained with a bore diameter and 16” rifling twist corresponding to those of the .32-40 black powder cartridge." (American Rifleman Magazine, April 1972, Page 63). Evidently, at least according to the next reference cited below, the rifling was more shallow than that in the .30-30.</p>
<p>An author of an article entitled “Persistent Shooting Myths” published in “Precision Shooting” issue of March 1999, pages 27, 30-35, Mr. M. L. McPherson, considers this a myth. He quotes the 1916 catalog as indicating that Winchester designed the .32 Winchester Special “as a cartridge that would generate more energy than the .30 WCF (.3030) without being so powerful as the .30 Army (.30-40 Krag.” However, the explanation in the 1902 catalog contradicts his opinion that it is a myth, explaining that one of the reasons for this cartridge was to give a round that could be loaded easily and successfully with black powder (one can argue why, with the splendid .32-40 round already in existence, that it was needed at all, and I would argue that it was not, but that is a different story).</p>
<p>I will quote the Winchester 1902 Catalog, the original entries for this caliber, and let those reading this decide for themselves if it is a myth that the cartridge was created with black-powder reloading in mind. I have eliminated parts of the text that don’t relate directly to this specific issue:</p>
<p>"Rifles for the .32 Winchester Special Cartridge are fitted with a new and specially designed rear sight…which is graduated for either Smokeless or Black powder cartridges. (JLM: Bear in mind that they did not offer loaded black powder cartridges in this caliber themselves).</p>
<p>“The .32 Wwinchester Special Cartridge, which we have just perfected, is offered to meet the demand of many sportsmen for a Smokeless powder cartridge of larger caliber than the .30 Winchester and yet not so powerful as the .30 U.S. Army, AND WHICH COULD BE RELOADED WITH BLACK POWDER AND GIVE SATISFACTORY RESULTS.”</p>
<p>One can see that their statement about its power factor, as mentioned by<br />
Mr. McPherson, is true, but is only half the original story put forth by Winchester as to the purpose of the introduction of this cartridge. The 1916 catalog, which was also consulted here, does omit that information in a much shortened explanation than the version that appears in earlier catalogs on the .32 Winchester Special cartridge. Perhaps they thought by then that interest in loading the round with black powder was waning. I cannot look into the thoughts involved in writing a catalog 90 years ago. However, the 1902 catalog, the original information on this cartridge, gives both reasons for its introduction.</p>
<p>If the part about the cartridge/rifle (bore especially) combination being introduced to offer sportsmen a smokeless load that can then be loaded with black powder is a myth, as McPherson claims, than it is a myth generated by those who originally designed and manufactured the cartridge, and the rifle that shot it.</p>
<p>Again, it is for for each person to decide. I can only present the published information here.</p>
<p>References: As cited above and:</p>
<p>Winchester Catalogs, Number 69, June 1902 and unnumbered Winchester catalog dated 1916.</p>
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					                    <pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2026 23:30:08 +0000</pubDate>
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                    <title>steve004 on An old wivestail???</title>
                    <link>https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-rifles/an-old-wivestail/#p179027</link>
                    <category>Winchester Rifles</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-rifles/an-old-wivestail/#p179027</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>I'm remembering the early Winchester promotional material (which must have had something to do with the development of the .32 W.S.).  I recall verbiage to the effect of the .32 W.S. being an improvement over the .30 WCF and basically getting about half way there to the .30-40 Krag power level.  Now this seemed to not work out to be true, but I think it was the company line.</p>
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					                    <pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2026 23:00:54 +0000</pubDate>
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                    <title>Bert H. on An old wivestail???</title>
                    <link>https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-rifles/an-old-wivestail/#p179024</link>
                    <category>Winchester Rifles</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-rifles/an-old-wivestail/#p179024</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">
<p><strong>Zebulon said </strong><br />
Bert,  when you write that "the 32 caliber" was "long known -- for its inherent accuracy", may I  assume you were referring to a specific cartridge, the 32-40, because it was long used in target competition and accordingly got a lot of accuracy development like the 38 Special and 45 Auto pistol cartridges? <br />
  </p>
</blockquote>
<p>Yes, I was referring to the 32-40 Ballard cartridge, which was adopted by Winchester in the year 1885 for the Single Shot rifle, and then in November 1894 for the Model 1894.</p>
<p>Bert</p>
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					                    <pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2026 19:25:06 +0000</pubDate>
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                    <title>Zebulon on An old wivestail???</title>
                    <link>https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-rifles/an-old-wivestail/#p179015</link>
                    <category>Winchester Rifles</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-rifles/an-old-wivestail/#p179015</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>Bert,  when you write that "the 32 caliber" was "long known -- for its inherent accuracy", may I  assume you were referring to a specific cartridge, the 32-40, because it was long used in target competition and accordingly got a lot of accuracy development like the 38 Special and 45 Auto pistol.cartridges? </p>
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					                    <pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2026 17:15:54 +0000</pubDate>
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                    <title>MidwestCrisis on An old wivestail???</title>
                    <link>https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-rifles/an-old-wivestail/#p179014</link>
                    <category>Winchester Rifles</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-rifles/an-old-wivestail/#p179014</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>How about the 35 cals?  Isn’t this around the same time 1910 to 1930 or so. When Winchester was rapidly developing new calibers and Remington UMC would immediately come out with something similar, just rimless or whatever?</p>
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					                    <pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2026 17:09:07 +0000</pubDate>
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                    <title>Steven Gabrielli on An old wivestail???</title>
                    <link>https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-rifles/an-old-wivestail/#p179011</link>
                    <category>Winchester Rifles</category>
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					                        <description><![CDATA[<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">
<p>
<strong>Bert H. said </strong><br />
We do not refer to them as "old Wives' Tails" on a gun forum... "wives" (women) seldom if ever talk about old guns except to tell us to stop buying them! <br />
Instead, the term "urban myth" is a lot more befitting.<br />
My understanding is that the 32 Winchester Special was developed as an improvement (replacement) for the older 32-40 black powder cartridge.  The .32 caliber was long known and recognized for its inherent accuracy, but it had not yet been loaded to its potential.  The 32 W.S. cartridge was considerably and ballistically more potent than the older 32-40 cartridge.  Even in its smokeless W.H.V. factory loading, the 32-40 was nowhere near the potency of the 32 W.S. The attached picture is a scanned copy of the April 1905 Winchester catalog.</p>
<p> <br />
Bert<br />
  </p>
</blockquote>
<p>This too. Back in the day a lot of people wanted to continue firing cast BP loads and the .32 barrels were a bit better, until they corroded from lack of cleaning.</p>
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					                    <pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2026 09:38:23 +0000</pubDate>
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                    <title>Steven Gabrielli on An old wivestail???</title>
                    <link>https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-rifles/an-old-wivestail/#p179010</link>
                    <category>Winchester Rifles</category>
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					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>This-</p>
<p>“Any real difference is in the skills and mind of the shooter and the situation at hand.<br />
I'd choose the 32 Spl. over the 30-30 for the same reason I chose the 270 over the 30-06................"The Road Less Traveled"...........Everyone I know has a 30-06. so whats to compare?‘’</p>
<p>And the .32WS is still here.</p>
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					                    <pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2026 09:32:56 +0000</pubDate>
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                    <title>Cliff on A Conservation Story</title>
                    <link>https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-rifles/a-conservation-story/#p178998</link>
                    <category>Winchester Rifles</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-rifles/a-conservation-story/#p178998</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>Agreed.</p>
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					                    <pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2026 00:41:27 +0000</pubDate>
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                    <title>MidwestCrisis on A Conservation Story</title>
                    <link>https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-rifles/a-conservation-story/#p178997</link>
                    <category>Winchester Rifles</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-rifles/a-conservation-story/#p178997</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>With the rest of the parts surviving.  I would exercise patience, and wait for the new barrel.  But that’s just me.  I have no idea what you know or your practical experience.   I would hazard a guess, best case you’ll have a shotgun.  Worst case you’ll lose a functional rifle you put some work in that’s also sentimental.  Then you can put it in the corner of your barn and wait for someone to take it from you.  Just my opinion.  You do you.  </p>
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					                    <pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2026 00:34:11 +0000</pubDate>
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                    <title>Cliff on A Conservation Story</title>
                    <link>https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-rifles/a-conservation-story/#p178996</link>
                    <category>Winchester Rifles</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-rifles/a-conservation-story/#p178996</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>Ive actually got this one straight enough to shoot right now. There is  still a slight 'S" curve in it but, I wouldnt be afraid to shoot it. Im sure accuracy and velocity would suffer though. The bore aint bad but it aint good either.  I can wait on a barrel 🙂</p>
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					                    <pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2026 00:20:01 +0000</pubDate>
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                    <title>TXGunNut on An old wivestail???</title>
                    <link>https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-rifles/an-old-wivestail/#p178995</link>
                    <category>Winchester Rifles</category>
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					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>I believe the 32WS is indeed an improvement on the 32-40 and the stories we hear about the 32WS as an effort to appease the BP shooters with a somewhat slower twist rate are interesting but I've always wondered about the success of that idea. The assertion that the 32WS is superior to the 30WCF is a fun way to see how much our friends know about either cartridge. I've never gotten useful firearms advice from an old wife.</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Mike</p>
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					                    <pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2026 00:01:26 +0000</pubDate>
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                    <title>TXGunNut on A Conservation Story</title>
                    <link>https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-rifles/a-conservation-story/#p178994</link>
                    <category>Winchester Rifles</category>
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					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>I believe MidwestCrisis is correct. A curved barrel might work, a sharply bent barrel will have a restriction that will dramatically raise pressures, likely even after attempted straightening. I would advise slugging it to confirm but you would need a flexible rod to drive that slug. A bore scope may be helpful, maybe not. I like the replacement barrel idea.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Mike</p>
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					                    <pubDate>Sun, 03 May 2026 23:46:01 +0000</pubDate>
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                    <title>MidwestCrisis on A Conservation Story</title>
                    <link>https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-rifles/a-conservation-story/#p178990</link>
                    <category>Winchester Rifles</category>
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					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>You’re talking about this device that the nazis came up with toward the end of the war for inner city fighting.  I believe I’ve seen one for the k98 that had a mirror mounted to it for sighting.  The history channel stuff is crap.  On you tube, look up demolition ranch and his last video on shooting through pipes.  He did it several times and I’d say perfected the test.  That barrel seems to have a kink, that I’d expect would explode the barrel.  </p>
<p><img data-upload="1" data-width="1179" data-height="2556" title="IMG_2030.png" alt="IMG_2030.png" src="https://winchestercollector.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-image-uploads/midwestcrisis/2026/05/IMG_2030.png" /></p>
<p>after posting a Nazi rifle. I feel the need to say hail Winchester.  The 95 in 30-06 would have defeated the Huns.  </p>
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					                    <pubDate>Sun, 03 May 2026 23:02:51 +0000</pubDate>
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                    <title>Jeremy P on Model 94 30-30</title>
                    <link>https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-rifles/model-94-30-30-1/#p178989</link>
                    <category>Winchester Rifles</category>
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					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>That's it then, for some reason I thought that happened 10-20 years earlier.</p>
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					                    <pubDate>Sun, 03 May 2026 22:27:45 +0000</pubDate>
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                    <title>450 Fuller on An old wivestail???</title>
                    <link>https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-rifles/an-old-wivestail/#p178985</link>
                    <category>Winchester Rifles</category>
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					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>Bert:</p>
<p>For reasons unknown, the 32WS attachment is not loading/appearing-at least for me.</p>
<p>Regatds;</p>
<p>Ridge M.</p>
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					                    <pubDate>Sun, 03 May 2026 21:43:01 +0000</pubDate>
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