Csterling1966 said
Or should I say 32 Winchester Special ?
Chris
  

That would be correct.

TXGunNut said

As far as the rifle or carbine is concerned the chambering is probably best described as 45-70 or as I prefer 45 Guvmint. Like you I find the variations of a few of the 45 (and 50) caliber cartridges fascinating and confusing when two or more cartridges share very similar overall dimensions or may be chambered in the same rifle. I believe a similar practice was used with the Trapdoor. The confusion continues when modern weapons in 45-70 (and 45 Colt comes to mind) will safely chamber cartridges capable of pressures and velocities likely not imagined 153 years ago. 

I was disappointed to discover during a recent safe dive a Hotchkiss has yet to follow me home. Perhaps I may need to be more proactive in this area.
 
Mike
  

I recently bought my first Springfields.  One is a beautiful trapdoor rifle from 1878 and the other is a Military 22 training rifle used during WW II.

Chris

Csterling1966 said
So does that add any more value if they have that x after the serial number , my cousin has this model 94 with one ?
  

No it does not, especially for a Model 94.  Currently, I have (75) "X" marked Model 94s in my survey.

Which caliber is your cousin's Model 94?

Bert

But standalone with an "X" is no premium for me.

Best Regards,

Chris

Louis Luttrell said
Hi Bert-
I know we've touched base on this before, but in your surveys do you have any/many Winchesters (any Model) with the "X" suffix denoting a duplicate fro before WWII?  Not to say that Winchester never had accidental s/n duplications earlier, just asking about how they denoted them...
Reason I ask is that in the M70 survey, I now have (5) with a "D" prefix, ALL between s/n D8690 and D8740.  I have others in that range that lack the prefix but (so far) have not seen the same s/n +/- the "D" which would suggest that the prefix was a pre-war way of denoting "duplicate"...
Thhanks,
Lou
  

Lou,

I do indeed have a very small number of Pre-WW II "X" suffixed Winchesters in my surveys.  The earliest is a Model 94 s/n 1261417X (PR date January 10, 1941).  It also has the "W" stamp indicating the Du-light Bluing test.

Bert

Chuck said

TXGunNut said
I seem to recall 45 caliber was sometimes expressed as 45/100 as in 45 100ths of an inch. For me in a military rifle of that era that would mean 45-70 or 45 Guvmint. 
 
Mike
  

Mike, you're correct and that may be what was meant?  I have a 2nd Model Military carbine and a 3rd Model Military rifle and each are 45 Cal.  But the carbine should be shot with the 45-55 load.  The Military found the 70 grs to be too much.  The other thing is that the 1st and 2nd Model Military carbines are a joint effort between Winchester and the Springfield Armory.  The 3rd Model Military rifle is all Winchester parts. 
  

Chuck-

As far as the rifle or carbine is concerned the chambering is probably best described as 45-70 or as I prefer 45 Guvmint. Like you I find the variations of a few of the 45 (and 50) caliber cartridges fascinating and confusing when two or more cartridges share very similar overall dimensions or may be chambered in the same rifle. I believe a similar practice was used with the Trapdoor. The confusion continues when modern weapons in 45-70 (and 45 Colt comes to mind) will safely chamber cartridges capable of pressures and velocities likely not imagined 153 years ago. 

I was disappointed to discover during a recent safe dive a Hotchkiss has yet to follow me home. Perhaps I may need to be more proactive in this area.

Mike

I know we've touched base on this before, but in your surveys do you have any/many Winchesters (any Model) with the "X" suffix denoting a duplicate fro before WWII?  Not to say that Winchester never had accidental s/n duplications earlier, just asking about how they denoted them...

Reason I ask is that in the M70 survey, I now have (5) with a "D" prefix, ALL between s/n D8690 and D8740.  I have others in that range that lack the prefix but (so far) have not seen the same s/n +/- the "D" which would suggest that the prefix was a pre-war way of denoting "duplicate"...

Thhanks,

Lou

Are you sure about the front sight on your later (non-African) Super Grades?  This could help the survey...  Whenever possible, I usually count the number of horizontal striations on the rear surface of the sight b/c they're hard to measure w/o knocking them out.  Pic below shows (left to right) Redfield full gold sights of 0.260" (used by Winchester only on the 375 MAGNUM 24-inch heavy barrel), 0.310" (254), 0.360" (255), and 0.390" (256).  The 256 was not used by Winchester on anything I'm aware of...  I have better pics of the 254 than this photo, but this is the composite I have handy...

Hi Ted-

The problem with "data" from an "observational survey" is that I can only record what was there when I saw the gun (or on-line photos of the gun).  This is a problem with LC M70s in general, since many (most???) people back in the day removed the original sight whenever they installed a scope, and many other people put the "wrong" sight back when trying to "restore" a gun for resale...  The 22G versus "low" 22K thing is a mess...  Since the "low" 22K blueprint I've mentioned is dated from 1948, it seems reasonable that any M70 made before 1948 with that sight is carrying a replacement.  But when/if Winchester went from the 22G to "low" 22K on LC Standard and Super Grade M70s is far from definite.  I know that the M43 rear sight was the "low" 22K and they started making them in 1948.  But the "data" on M70s are still messy...

When it comes to what height front sight should be on a Super Grade, I tend to look at what was being used on Standard rifles at the time.  I can think of no reason why a Super Grade would require a different height front sight than a Standard rifle that had the same stock dimensions/barrel contour/rear sight...  Standard rifles are more common so there are more data...  

Talk about "messy data"...  Try charting M70 boxes/tags/manuals...  That survey looks like a cat barfed on an Excel spreadsheet!!!  There are way too many boxes out there that are either fakes/repros or are original boxes with altered/fake end labels.  The only (possible) saving Grace is that Olin Corporation changed corporate names several times during the period that the pre-64 M70 was being made, and the boxes/tags/manuals (like the catalogs and print ads) followed suit...  I had a nice chat with tionesta about this at the OGCA/WACA show.  He's got the right idea!!!

Best,

Lou