mrcvs said

twobit said

cj57 said
https://www.proxibid.com/lotinformation/101787118/the-pinnacle-trapper-outstanding-original-and
Here’s a very nice trapper that sold last week, hammered at 65k
  

So this is a pretty much perfect  example of how trying to establish the "value" of a rifle is REALLY tricky!!  The $65,000 "Pinnacle Trapper" at Poulin apparently was only worth $32,313 when it sold this past December at RIA!!!  Now THAT is some kind of inflation!!  These rifles have no real set in stone value.  The value is purely driven by how much one or two guys want it and whatever satisfaction they derive from that ownership.  https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/4096/1009/winchester-model-92-saddle-ring-trappers-carbine
Michael
  

What do you think the OPs carbine is really worth?
Also, what it brings in a few weeks may not even reflect true value in that a bidding war might ensue and then if resold not too much later, without a bidding war, it could bring considerably less.
  

That is almost impossible to answer for SO many reasons.  For me personally, I am not a "trapper" fan.  First, I just don't like them.  I see them as too much like a toy gun.  Especially the shortest barreled ones.  Therefore, MY value is going to be less than a lot of others.  Second, they are A LOT more common than past authors and most collectors think that they are.  If you read this thread that I started I document some of the incorrect number that many people use to justify rarity.  https://winchestercollector.org/forum/general-discussions-questions/research-answering-questions-and-the-trouble-with-madis-and-pirkle/   Third, the value of a dollar is much more different amongst collectors who have more or fewer of them to spend.  By this I mean that if I have $150,000 to spend in a year on my Winchester hobby I will be much more willing to spend one or two thousand more on a particular rifle than a guy who has $2000 to spend in a single year.  Our value of what we "value" (money) is different to us.  

Here is another example of crazy supposed values of a rifle.  I have now seen this rifle for sale four individual times in 8 years.  It was first sold at Julia's in March of 2018 for $9200.  It was subsequently listed at Merz for $15,000.  Then, in October of 2025 it was "sold at RIA" for $5875!!!  THEN.. agian it was listed at Merz in March of 2026 for $27,500 where it still sits.  https://www.merzantiques.com/product/w4463-special-order-winchester-1892-pistol-grip-checkered-rifle-in-caliber-25-20-m/

Back to your original question.  The OP's trapper is probably worth someplace between $6000 and $20,000.  Or much higher if the Poulin buy, and his competition are still in the game.  Or maybe not.

Michael

Louis Luttrell said
Hi Aaron-
Congrats on a very nice Model 70.  That's one to be proud of and hang onto for Generations.
To answer your question.  Model 70s did not have factory drilled holes on the bridge until 1946.  So the (probably just one) hole in the bridge for the rear of the Redfield JR mount was added.  The other holes, two atop the front receiver ring and two on the left side rear for a receiver sight, were factory.  Your rifle was originally a G7003C (Standard rifle, 270 WCF, Winchester 22G Sporting type rear sight).  So the only other "alteration" is that the rear sight was removed from the barrel to allow clearance for the scope's objective bell.  As best I can tell, everything else, including wood and metal finishes, is original and correct.
The scope is a 4X Unertl Hawk and it's in period Redfield rings. Those scopes date to about the late (post-WWII) 1940s or 50s.  Your Grandfather certainly knew quality, as that scope was about the best available at the time.
For comparison, the one pictured below is also a 1936 vintage Model 70 Standard rifle (s/n 1099).  It's a 30 GOV'T'06 but otherwise looks like yours.  It has the type of rear sight that was removed from yours.

Hope this helps,
Lou
  

Hi, I have a follow-up question, if that's allowed. If not, I can start a new thread.

I'm planning on getting back into deer hunting with a friend of mine whose future son-in-law is an avid hunter. Being in Western Oregon, the obvious place to start would be hunting blacktails on public lands between here and the coast. I'm thinking about either buying a new hunting rifle or using the Model 70. If I use it, I would probably buy a new scope (Leupold 3.5-10x likely).

My question: what bases/rings do I need to get for this? I figured out how to remove the old scope and rings by rotating the front ring. I also confirmed that there is a single screw drilled into the rear for mounting the Redfield base. Thanks in advance.

twobit said

cj57 said
https://www.proxibid.com/lotinformation/101787118/the-pinnacle-trapper-outstanding-original-and
Here’s a very nice trapper that sold last week, hammered at 65k
  

So this is a pretty much perfect  example of how trying to establish the "value" of a rifle is REALLY tricky!!  The $65,000 "Pinnacle Trapper" at Poulin apparently was only worth $32,313 when it sold this past December at RIA!!!  Now THAT is some kind of inflation!!  These rifles have no real set in stone value.  The value is purely driven by how much one or two guys want it and whatever satisfaction they derive from that ownership.  https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/4096/1009/winchester-model-92-saddle-ring-trappers-carbine
Michael
  

What do you think the OPs carbine is really worth?

Also, what it brings in a few weeks may not even reflect true value in that a bidding war might ensue and then if resold not too much later, without a bidding war, it could bring considerably less.

Bert H. said

twobit said

twobit said
Within the first 288,000 Model 1892's manufactured there were 5,387 short barreled carbine produced.  Of those the 16 inch is the most common at 2,495 then the 15 inch at 1,713 and then the 14 inch at 958 examples.  17, 18, and 12 inch examples start to get into hen's teeth range. Beyond 288,000 the disparity between 16 and 14 inch configurations decrease.  I have sampled 154 additional 16 inch examples compared to 128 additional 14 inch examples. Condition being equal then rarity will drive the price.  
Michael
  

Bert,
That is not what my data shows.  Between the ledger data and the additional "population" information the 16 inch option is more popular/common.
Michael
  

Thanks for the correction.  Your survey is invaluable as it quantifies the potential production numbers.
Bert
  

Thanks.  SO glad that I haven't been wasting time over all these years!! 

twobit said

twobit said
Within the first 288,000 Model 1892's manufactured there were 5,387 short barreled carbine produced.  Of those the 16 inch is the most common at 2,495 then the 15 inch at 1,713 and then the 14 inch at 958 examples.  17, 18, and 12 inch examples start to get into hen's teeth range. Beyond 288,000 the disparity between 16 and 14 inch configurations decrease.  I have sampled 154 additional 16 inch examples compared to 128 additional 14 inch examples. Condition being equal then rarity will drive the price.  
Michael
  

Bert,
That is not what my data shows.  Between the ledger data and the additional "population" information the 16 inch option is more popular/common.
Michael
  

Thanks for the correction.  Your survey is invaluable as it quantifies the potential production numbers.

Bert

twobit said
Within the first 288,000 Model 1892's manufactured there were 5,387 short barreled carbine produced.  Of those the 16 inch is the most common at 2,495 then the 15 inch at 1,713 and then the 14 inch at 958 examples.  17, 18, and 12 inch examples start to get into hen's teeth range. Beyond 288,000 the disparity between 16 and 14 inch configurations decrease.  I have sampled 154 additional 16 inch examples compared to 128 additional 14 inch examples. Condition being equal then rarity will drive the price.  
Michael
  

Bert,

That is not what my data shows.  Between the ledger data and the additional "population" information the 16 inch option is more popular/common.

Michael

Henry Mero said
I can't speak on the '92's, but a 14", '94 trapper is way more valuable than a 16", all things being equal.
  

I believe that is because most Model '94 Trappers were 15", and the total number of 16" versus 14" is a 4:1 ratio.  the following table is derived from my ongoing research survey and it documents the current totals for each barrel length.

Bert

tionesta1 said
The $65,000 carbine is a 14", whereas the GunAuction carbine is 16".  Is 14" more valuable than 16", with equal condition?
  

Based on the total production numbers, No, it is not (in my opinion).  The 14" length was essentially the standard "Trapper" length for the Model 1892.  A 16" Model 1892 would have been a special order.  Further, when you take into consideration that the 16" gun is completely free of any legal hinderances (the NFA), it is more desirable.

Bert

cj57 said

twobit said

cj57 said
https://www.proxibid.com/lotinformation/101787118/the-pinnacle-trapper-outstanding-original-and
Here’s a very nice trapper that sold last week, hammered at 65k
  

So this is a pretty much perfect  example of how trying to establish the "value" of a rifle is REALLY tricky!!  The $65,000 "Pinnacle Trapper" at Poulin apparently was only worth $32,313 when it sold this past December at RIA!!!  Now THAT is some kind of inflation!!  These rifles have no real set in stone value.  The value is purely driven by how much one or two guys want it and whatever satisfaction they derive from that ownership.  https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/4096/1009/winchester-model-92-saddle-ring-trappers-carbine
Michael
  

This is why the OP made the right decision on putting it up for auction. I think he will get the best value for his beautiful Trapper rather than putting it on here for a fixed price, as he didn't know it's value and may have short changed himself. 
  

I'm in total agreement!

Tony

twobit said

cj57 said
https://www.proxibid.com/lotinformation/101787118/the-pinnacle-trapper-outstanding-original-and
Here’s a very nice trapper that sold last week, hammered at 65k
  

So this is a pretty much perfect  example of how trying to establish the "value" of a rifle is REALLY tricky!!  The $65,000 "Pinnacle Trapper" at Poulin apparently was only worth $32,313 when it sold this past December at RIA!!!  Now THAT is some kind of inflation!!  These rifles have no real set in stone value.  The value is purely driven by how much one or two guys want it and whatever satisfaction they derive from that ownership.  https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/4096/1009/winchester-model-92-saddle-ring-trappers-carbine
Michael
  

This is why the OP made the right decision on putting it up for auction. I think he will get the best value for his beautiful Trapper rather than putting it on here for a fixed price, as he didn't know it's value and may have short changed himself. 

cj57 said
https://www.proxibid.com/lotinformation/101787118/the-pinnacle-trapper-outstanding-original-and
Here’s a very nice trapper that sold last week, hammered at 65k
  

So this is a pretty much perfect  example of how trying to establish the "value" of a rifle is REALLY tricky!!  The $65,000 "Pinnacle Trapper" at Poulin apparently was only worth $32,313 when it sold this past December at RIA!!!  Now THAT is some kind of inflation!!  These rifles have no real set in stone value.  The value is purely driven by how much one or two guys want it and whatever satisfaction they derive from that ownership.  https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/4096/1009/winchester-model-92-saddle-ring-trappers-carbine

Michael

Michael

cj57 said
https://www.proxibid.com/lotinformation/101787118/the-pinnacle-trapper-outstanding-original-and
Here’s a very nice trapper that sold last week, hammered at 65k
  

Strewth. 

And that $65,000 USD is without the juice....