THREEDFLYER said
Michael, 
I just sent you a PM with the serial number......feel free to post any info you might dig up on this thread.
Thanks for the help!
Tom
  

Thanks Tom.

I had not previously seen that specific rifle.  I added it into my spreadsheet and it is in a small group of other short barrel carbines in either 25-20 or 32 WCF caliber.  SN 859920 was sold at RIA back in May of 2023 as Lot 42 for $11,163.  https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/88/42/atf-exempted-winchester-model-1892-trappers-carbine

SN 859943 was sold at RIA in August of 2024 as Lot 3032 for $12,925.  https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/4092/3032/winchester-model-1892-saddle-ring-trappers-carbine

That should help give you some ballpark numbers baring the fact that yours is in significantly poorer condition.

Michael

But:

Now for the bad news.  The barrel has subsequently been cut down to 20 inches and a rifle style front sight installed in a dovetail!  AAARGH

That is some seriously bad news!

I just sent you a PM with the serial number......feel free to post any info you might dig up on this thread.

Thanks for the help!

Tom

Commissioner said
Fellow: I have an 1895 Winchester in 45/70. It. Looks brand new. only Winchester markings and address,But it says made in Japan. It don’t say by who?It has a tang safety on it. It is engraved with a cheynabyl stock. Generally if the are made by Miroku they say so. It is a beautiful rifle, both the stock and forearm are finely checkered. Does anyone else have one? The Bluing is sort of a Matt blue, instead of highly polished. The barrel says “Special Steel” your reply’s are appreciated.
  

Contact the Browning Arms Company.

The style of the barrel address stamp also is very interesting when you dig into it.  When the 1892 was introduced round barrel examples had what I refer to as the Style 1C in my spreadsheet and was only used for about the first year of production.  Or so I thought.  This style has "crows feet" before and after the 2 lines of print.  The rifle in question does not have this style but has what I call the 1D style which only has a dash before and after the bottom line of print.  I then sorted my spread sheet by configuration, barrel shape, and then serial number.  Sure enough the round barrel sporting rifles used the 1C style well into 1893 (SN 15000 range) after these carbines were assembled.  BUT... When I looked at the SRC barrels the 1C style was discontinued prior to the end of 1892 (SN 6800 range).  Taht is an almost 8000 rifle difference between the time span for the usage of the barrel address styles.  Carbines assembled in early 1893 had the later 1D Style while the sporting rifles were still stamped with the 1C "crows feet" style.  Therefore, these 24 inch carbines were actually had specially made carbine barrels and not just repurposed rifle barrels.  

Now for the bad news.  The barrel has subsequently been cut down to 20 inches and a rifle style front sight installed in a dovetail!  AAARGH!!  The original "Fancy" wood can be seen in the butt stock.  There is not trace of the original "Gold Trims" as noted in the ledger.  I do really like the way the serial number is presented as if written on a scroll.  I will continue to correspond with the owner and try to find a bit more of the history if knows anything about it.

Michael

1873man said
Its similar but not the same.
Bob
  

Yes, but the Peeler family has been around since the late 1800's and the brand has changed along the way.  If you read the history you will see the original 7PL and similar markings.  The guy that has the dude/hunting ranch in Colorado is a great nephew of the family.  Maybe more than 1 great.  I have no idea how this will turn out. 

Bob

Here is a bad shot of the 1950's brand.  

Or just read this.  https://www.peelerranch.com/history/

Based on what I've observed,  buyers seem to want a 44 caliber Model 92 far more than any other, even though it was the most commonly produced.  I suppose we could call  that the desirability factor. 

I do wonder if that translates to the baby carbines?  

If desirability depends on volume of history or putative history a/k/a "stories" -- I would think a baby 44 would come up aces high. 

A trapper in the wilderness values lightness but also needs something for self-defense and edible game. While a 25 or 32 might spare hides better,  I'm guessing the 44 would be the popular choice.

The hottest story for the babies is how many went South to arm the praetorean guards of various banana republics. Surely those were mostly 44 caliber, perhaps except for an Ulrich engraved 25 for El Presidente's nieto favorito. 

Condition for condition, I bet a donut that a Model 92 44 caliber baby carbine will draw top money over the same carbine in 25 or 32. 

All proofs to the contrary will be graciously received. 

THREEDFLYER said
Looking to see what the Model 1892 Trapper's have been selling for lately based on caliber?
I realize that the .44 is the most desirable and the .25 not as much....but then again, I am not sure just how many Trappers were made in .25?
We have a 14" with NFA paperwork that was built in 1919 chambered in .25-20 in well used condition and will be putting it up for sale at some point in the near future. 
Thanks in advance,
  

Hello Tom,

Here is a small portion of a larger forum thread that I started a few months ago that addresses the number of trapper which were manufactured.  Suffice it to say that there were most likely close to 8000 to 9000 of them.  From the ledger research that I have done the most popular lengths were 16 inch, then 15 inch and then 14 inch in descending order.  The 25-20 was the least used in ANY length.  

"This all got started with a question as to how rare a certain trapper configuration was.  I gave my reply based on my inspection of 288,000 factory ledgers combined with the current status of my survey.  Madis states in his books that 2 out of 3 guns were rifles.  Therefore 33% of production were carbines.  Then he notes that 1 of 325 (.0031%) carbines had shorter than 20 inch barrels.  If you run the math that works out to 985,000 (excluding Model 53 and 65 rifles in the 1892/92 SN sequence) x .33 = 325,050 carbines x .0031 = 1,007 carbines with barrels less than 20 inches.  Pirkle states that carbines with 14 to 19 inch barrels make up 1200 samples.

To date I have examined the written factory production letters for the first 288,000 Model 1892’s that were produced and transferred all of that information into a huge excel spreadsheet.  This represents the first 29% of the total production of the Model 1892/92’s.  Within just this portion of production there are already a total of 5,387 proven/known short barreled carbines. Beyond SN 288,000 I have cataloged an additional 508 individual carbines with short barrels within the balance of the rifles that I have surveyed.  Between SN 944970 to SN 945056 (86 SN’s) I have  6 SRC’s and each of them has a 16 inch barrel.  That suggests that ALL 86 of those SN’s are trappers.  There is another batch of 4,543 serial numbers in the 954,000 range where I have 92 samples.  All are SRC’s and 22 of those (24%) are short barreled.  Mostly 16” and a few 14” examples.  If you gross that up for just that interval it suggests that another 1090 short barreled carbines were produced in that single interval alone.  Add these numbers up and it totals:  5,387 + 508 + 86 + 1068 (extrapolated addition in the 954,000 range) = 7,049 short barrel carbines were produced.  There are several additional runs of SRC’s that show similar concentrations of short barrels and I still have another 100,000 production ledgers to compile plus listings from the BATF that are not included yet."

With regard to possible values your rifle will possibly be valued higher because of the rarity of the 25-20 caliber but condition will also be VERY important.  To date, I have only found 8 14 inch SRC's out of almost 22,000 Model 1892 rifles.  Can I get some photos of the rifle and the serial number so that I can add it into my research?  Here is one that sold on RIA back in 2020.  https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/1035/2006/winchester-model-1892-14-inch-barrel-trapper-carbine

Michael

I realize that the .44 is the most desirable and the .25 not as much....but then again, I am not sure just how many Trappers were made in .25?

We have a 14" with NFA paperwork that was built in 1919 chambered in .25-20 in well used condition and will be putting it up for sale at some point in the near future. 

Thanks in advance,