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Lot #2 at RIA features a high $$$ 1892 deluxe.
http://www.rockislandauction.com/viewitem/aid/61/lid/2
My limited experience with Winchesters tells me a deluxe 1892 just isn’t as prevalent as 1894. So I spent a Cody search and whaddya know, it came up as a standard 1892 .32 rifle, oct bbl, mfg in 1899. Nothing fancy at all in the search results. But…there is an R&R entry from Aug 1900. No further explanation provided.
I have seen Cody searches with R&R entries that detail what changes were made (In fact I have an 1886 rifle with such detail listed by Cody). And then I have seen Cody R&R entries like this one.
So the burning question is how does one tell if this rifle is legit or not given the lack of info? This would’ve been a pretty significant change but no mention of that? OK, it was the 1900s and record keeping wasn’t as standardized or perhaps important as today. But just sayin that is a lot of change with no documentation for such a wad of cash.
Thanks – Greg
Greg:
First of all, let’s start with the description: "The stock and forearm have ‘Style W’ checkering." Winchester didn’t have a style "W" checkering. This is an "H" style checking. So let’s immediately assume that the person responsible for the description doesn’t know squat about Winchesters.
The fact that the gun won’t letter means that the buyer must rely on the "R&R" to accept the current condition as "original". This is a major stretch and if the buyer ever wanted to sell the gun down-stream, he would have to manufacture a story to fit the gun – tough sell.
Given the above, the gun must speak for itself. I don’t like the fit of the wood to the metal on this gun and note the chip out of the right side of the butt-stock and the one out of the left rear of the forearm. These are damage marks from improper or careless removal and re-installation of the wood. This in my mind is a rather big tip-off. Some of the screw holes look tortured and the finish is not all that good.
I would not bid on this gun at any price…………
WACA Life Benefactor Member
NRA Life Member
The grain of the wood does not look like what Winchester used back then.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
It’ll be interesting to see if something like this can attract a hammer price consistent with RIA’s estimates. I understand one has to view auction descriptions for what they are, a marketing tool, but I just wonder why they don’t go to the additional efforts to validate the originality. At least disassemble it like JDJ does for high-end Winchesters. Maybe it’s a case of see no evil, hear no evil. RIA knows forums like this exist for specific classes of firearms. And they aren’t stupid or ignorant otherwise their business wouldn’t last like it has. I can understand an occasional typo (W checker instead of H) – likely the person typing was transcribing, doesn’t know anything about firearms and didn’t actually write the description – seems like that would be a waste of highly paid employee time for the Winchester expert to actually type it as well. I just find this particular situation perplexing. But I’ve only been watching the auction houses for about 1.5 – 2 years now so maybe this is more common that I think.
Yes, there were indeed far fewer Deluxe Model 1892 rifles manufactured, this stands to reason given the much lower production number for this model. That is why we don’t see them that often, and when you do, they have nice prices on them.
As Bob and Rick already noted, you can see the screws have been messed with and the wood – apart from the chips – just doesn’t quite look right. The problem with R&Rs is just as often as not, there is no mention of what repairs the rifle was returned for. Sometimes one will find old assembly numbers crossed out when one takes apart such a gun, and the new R&R order #s stamped in different places on the rifle (under barrel, in forearm recess, sides of tangs, etc) which can tell part of the story, but those are not always there. As noted, with a gun like this, you have to convince they next potential buyer of its authenticity as well. I would not take a chance on this rifle.
Matt
Rick Hill said
Greg:First of all, let’s start with the description: "The stock and forearm have ‘Style W’ checkering." Winchester didn’t have a style "W" checkering. This is an "H" style checking. So let’s immediately assume that the person responsible for the description doesn’t know squat about Winchesters.
The fact that the gun won’t letter means that the buyer must rely on the "R&R" to accept the current condition as "original". This is a major stretch and if the buyer ever wanted to sell the gun down-stream, he would have to manufacture a story to fit the gun – tough sell.
Given the above, the gun must speak for itself. I don’t like the fit of the wood to the metal on this gun and note the chip out of the right side of the butt-stock and the one out of the left rear of the forearm. These are damage marks from improper or careless removal and re-installation of the wood. This in my mind is a rather big tip-off. Some of the screw holes look tortured and the finish is not all that good.
I would not bid on this gun at any price…………
Yeah Rick. It reminds me of a certain "mint" M1892 rifle in 44 -40 that turned out to have been shipped as a 32-20. I never got over that one, and never again contemplated buying another rifle from this well known seller. Big Larry
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