Log In
August 5, 2013
Offline
RIA’s lot 3005 in this wknd’s auction advertises a Model 94 semi deluxe w/original shipping crate.
http://www.rockislandauction.com/viewitem/aid/62/lid/3005
I learned over the years thru this forum that many people pass off fake or tampered crates as original. This crate was painted with the name Leackock Sporting Goods Co St Louis Mo. Additionally, there is a torn sticker on the crate above the stenciling, with the address 921 Locust St St Louis Mo.
With just a few minutes of Internet searching here’s what I turned up:
– Leacock Sporting Goods Co was founded in St Louis Mo in 1902 by a gent named R J Leacock. It sold various sporting goods, including guns.
– Per Landmarks Association of St Louis, Leacock Sporting Goods was a tenant at the 921 Locust St address from the mid-1910s through 1946. At least in the article I read, Landmark did not provide any history on Leacock prior to mid-1910s. I believe that Landmarks Association is a private, non-profit advocate for landmark preservation in that area and researches various real estate sites for landmark eligibility/development.
– Per a website named Vintage Baseball Glove Forum, Leacock moved from its original HQ to a different building in 1917…the website provides a picture of the new site, which is the exact building identified by picture and address from the Landmarks Association website. Neither website cites their source but their dates are consistent.
– The Cody letter states this rifle was shipped from the warehouse in 1905.
I am not familiar at all with crates. I have no idea if it’s original or not. I just find it interesting that this crate contains a label for a company’s street address that didn’t occupy said space until 10 years after the rifle was shipped from the warehouse. Maybe the rifle was shipped to the old address, it sat unsold for 10 yrs, and was boxed up as part of the move with a moving label slapped on it. Or maybe it’s entirely a fake. Just some interesting data points for those who want to know.
Greg
April 15, 2005
Offline
Greg,
I believe that you connected (or better stated, disconnected) the dots perfectly.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
June 11, 2014
Offline
Nice work, Spursfan and a very telling observation.
May 23, 2009
Offline
Another Little Tid Bit I noticed, which might throw an odd wrench in the mix, The Hang Tag with the Gun Oil Advertisement wasn’t in use in 1905 either. Not until the 1913-1920 range did it come into use.
Any thoughts to the possibility of a R&R here with this Rifle? The gun being a take-down, many people had problems with take-downs and damaging them.
Not to be Devil’s Advocate but suppose the original owner bought gun through Leackock Sporting Goods in 1905. Sometime between 1905 & 1915 he broke something (Like part of the take-down mechanism or extractor on the bolt) on the gun, went back to Leackock Sporting Goods, where he bought it. Where they had since moved down the street to the new address and they in turn shipped it back to the factory, had it repaired and mailed back to them for the customer.
All that said, I find the Original Hang Tag a little odd for its condition and still being with the rifle. Also there is not enough shown as far as images of the shipping crate to form a proper opinion. And granted a R&R should of been noted in the Factory Ledger, but that is not always the case.
Always buy the Rifle and not the story. And if some extras come with the rifle don’t pay to much for them.
Sincerely,
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
January 19, 2013
Offline
Would Winchester actually make a cut metal stencil to label a shipping crate? I have a number of old stencils from the apple growing and wine making industries that my mom collected and they are all thin sheet tin or steel. I would think the time and cost to produce the type of stencil required to make that mark would be way more then Winchester would spend.
I could be wrong if they were shipping a dozen rifles a month or something to Leland.
January 24, 2013
Offline
Just playing Devil’s Advocate here:
Your research has Leacock Sporting Goods Co being founded in 1902. What was their shipping address at the time? Was it 921 Locust St or some other address? 8 years of missing information.
Back then, as today it’s a very common practice for companies to have a sipping/receiving warehouse in a separate location form their HQ/showrooms. I imagine in the early 1900s the sipping/receiving warehouse was a pretty grungy place; think horse drawn wagons, close to the rail yards, lots of trash/dunnage and manure.
It was also common practice for several smaller companies to share a shipping /receiving warehouse, and workmen would uncrate the items in the warehouse then either deliver the products to the merchants/recipients, or the merchants would pick them up.
We don’t know where Landmark or the Baseball glove forum got their information, was it independent from each other or did the Baseball Glove Forum copy it from the Landmark website or vice versa?
The fact that Leacock moved its HQ in 1917 is interesting bur not overly relevant; 12 years after the shipping date of the rifle. Possibly Leacock owned/leased two separate buildings/offices, and in 1917 decided to consolidate operations in one location.
Bottom line is that there are too many unknowns to draw an accurate conclusion.
Now if you had found out that Leacock was not established until 1930, or that there was never a Leacock sporting goods in St Louis, that would be a different story. But the fact is that they were in St Louis at the correct time frame, dealing in firearms.
August 5, 2013
Offline
Thanks for everyone for taking the bait and chiming in with thoughts. We know the rifle was shipped in 1905. We know Leacock was founded in 1902. We know the red label on the crate is for 921 Locust St in St Louis. It appears that Leacock occupied 921 Locust St beginning in mid-1910s, likely around 1917. We don’t know where Leacock was HQ’d prior to 921 Locust St (or at least I didn’t put any further effort into it once I learned the timing of their move).
I, personally, would have an issue asserting the crate is completely authentic to that rifle since the red label on the crate is for an address that wasn’t occupied by Leacock until at least 10 years after the rifle was shipped from the warehouse. It may be an authentic crate. It may be a crate that was shipped to Leacock while at 921 Locust St. I just have no firm information that tells me it was THE crate for THAT rifle shipped in 1905. So without positive proof, I default to the maxim "buy the gun, not the story". The crate would just be a bonus or a nice conversation piece.
Some of the early 1900s St. Louis City Directories are on line. With info from that and the street view of Google Earth, I found the following:
From 1903 until 1907, Leacock Sporting Goods was at 711 Pine Street. That is now a parking garage, so we are out of luck with any building history.
From 1908 until some time before the 1917 City Directory was published. Leacock was at 810 Pine. This is a large brick building, 10 or more stories high & occupying about a third of the street frontage of the 800 block of Pine. The street level was obviously for retail businesses, with the upper floors for professional offices or residential units. Looks to be all boarded up, probably abandoned. But in 1910, it was probably desirable commercial property.
921 Locust appears to be a building constructed for commercial & retail trade. From the street view, it looks to have a lot more floor space than 810 Pine. Leacock’s business might have outgrown the 810 Pine Street premises. In the later City Directories, Leacock bought the larger type font to make his business stand out. Perhaps he did receive a few dozen guns from Winchester each year.
Re stencils: I was stationed at a Naval Ammunition Depot 1961-1965. We had the sheet metal stencils for large items, but the letters were 2" or 3" high. Smaller stencils were cut with a stencil-making machine that punched individual letters onto sturdy pasteboard. Once made up, the stencils could be used over & over. I first saw the machine in 1961 and it was obviously very old, maybe even WW1 vintage.
My wife once bought a print shop wherein the machinery was reputed to have come "round the Horn" by steamship. The paper cutters (the reason she bought the place) looked to be the same vintage as the stencil machine and had the same maker’s marks. The Winchester shipping department could have used a similar system.
I still give the story "thumbs down", but it is not completely impossible.
1 Guest(s)
