I was able to score a pretty good deal on a 1951-era, M70 in 30/06, because someone had done the very same to this otherwise very nice rifle.

This rifle came to me WITH the “ugly” Pachmeyr mount installed!

I took it home for only $400 OTD!

When home, I removed the mount and installed some screws in the extra holes to “dissuade” my critical eyes from them.
It did help!

I figure when it comes time to sell this rifle, the mount will be included!

There was a time, back here in western Connecticut, that the late Harry Haight, gunsmith extraordinaire, must have had an “in” with Pachmeyr ‘cause his handiwork was very prevalent around these parts!

Can you send photos of the left side of the receiver and stock to me at luttrell@musc.edu?  I will post them for you.  Alternativelly you'll need to post them on a third party site and post the link here.

With pics, we may be able to determine what brand side mount was originally installed.  There are about a hlaf dozen possibilities...

Lou

Bert

I was recently given a pre-64 model 70 by a family member who is an avid collector. I believe it's a 'pre-war' or close to it (serial number 59,XXX) and has been kept in relatively good condition, except that early on the first owner installed a scope side mount that required a cut into the stock and some drilling. This isn't the cutout for a Lyman peep sight; it's a narrow groove that as best I can tell is for something like the Pachmayr Lo-Swing or Griffin and Howe.

Of course it is usable in its current condition (it's currently set up with a Lyman 48WJS) but I am interested to know more about my options and thought this forum might have some opinions. I think the easiest solution would be to find a smith who can simply fix the stock, but given that the cutout and drilling already exists, is it possible and/or advisable to find and install the appropriate side mount that was originally installed? If so, how do I determine which side mount was used, and how do I understand my options for what kind of scope could be mounted? Though I don't care too much about the sale value (I don't intend to ever sell it), I also don't want to do anything to cause further damage, like further drilling. My goal is to end up with a high-quality shooting/hunting rifle that respects and honors the family heritage of the gun and of the people who used it before me. 

Edit:

Maybe, just maybe, did it say, "bolt turn down like Mouser"?

I like the turned down bolt:

https://bid.lsbauctions.com/online-auctions/lock-stock-and-barrel/winchester-3rd-model-1883-hotchkiss-musket-45-70-govt-bolt-action-rifle-1895-antique-9906806

Bill Jokela said
twobit
I have one model 61 with an X suffix. It is serial number 201072X. I sent this number to you 5 or 6 years ago along with others. It is the only 61 with an X suffix that I have ever seen.
Regards Bill Jokela
  

Hello Bill,

Thanks so much.  I did not have it in my data!  Can't tell you why.  Now it's the only one that I have seen.

Michael

I have one model 61 with an X suffix. It is serial number 201072X. I sent this number to you 5 or 6 years ago along with others. It is the only 61 with an X suffix that I have ever seen.

Regards Bill Jokela

Michael

This is from an older (January 2025) version of the M70 survey, but I think it shows that duplicates were more common at some times than others.  Also shown are the three "D" serial numbers I had at the time and the "G" prefix serial numbers.  The latter represent pre-64 M70 receivers that were replaced after 1968, by which time Winchester was required to add a hand stamped "G" prefix.

Tedk said
Very informative thread…
  

That's for sure!

Chasing any info.

Thanks

John

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Buck94 said

patdaddy said
So…why were there duplicate serial numbers to begin with? Did they stamp the number, then say “whoops” and grab the “X” stamp? I mean, it seems to me they wouldn’t have duplicated the number on purpose.
  

Yes, It was a factory fix for a production accident. Winchester stamped serial numbers sequentially as guns came off the line, and occasionally two guns ended up with the same number — a skipped or reused number in the ledger, or a stamp applied twice.
When they caught it, they stamped an X after the number on the second gun so the two wouldn’t float around with identical serials. Rumour has it there is even a known single XX out there which is even crazier to understand how that accident occurred  😀
  

No rumor... Model 94 serial number 2138903XX exists.  It wasn't an "accident" per se, but was a machinery (mechanical) malfunction issue.

Bert

patdaddy said
So…why were there duplicate serial numbers to begin with? Did they stamp the number, then say “whoops” and grab the “X” stamp? I mean, it seems to me they wouldn’t have duplicated the number on purpose.
  

Early production duplicates were the result of human error.  The person operating the manually operated number index die either forgot or got distracted and did not rotate to the next sequential number.  In the post-WW II years, the indexing of the number digits was automated, but the machinery sometimes malfunctioned when it was in need of maintenance (oiling or adjustment).

This is an example... in the year 1955 there was an apparent mechanical issue with the serial number machinery in the 2134800 - 2139000 range, and it was really bad in the 2138000 - 2138977 range.

Keep in mind, the list above is only what I have found thus far.  I suspect that there are a lot more duplicates that I have yet to find and document.

Bert