Mark Douglas said

Chuck said
 
Or buy a new firing pin and the striker and modify them.  Grind the pins off the striker and have a pin inserted in the end of the firing pin.  This will allow you to shoot center fire.  
  

Chuck. I like your enthusiasm for the simplicity of converting an 1866 to centerfire.  However, this is exactly the type of improper conversion I talked about in the video and even showed a firing pin/striker assembly that had been converted in the manner you described.  It's a very bad idea to fire one that's been converted this way (don't ask me how I know) When converted this way, the face of the striker and the newly installed firing pin retract into the bolt far enough that the primers back out nearly all the way and most of the time are now unseated enough that they are impaled on the firing pin when the cartridge is ejected.  
Take it from me, it's not a lot of fun to clean up the black powder blown past the primer (and possibly the primer itself) out of your receiver after firing, not to mention lovely experience of the puff of burnt black powder exiting the top of the receiver.  Note the two puffs of black powder smoke from this never before released still photo. This 1866 was fired using the converted striker shown in the recent video.  It caused no damage, but it sure made a mess in the receiver.
In my experience, the only correct way to convert to a Henry or 1866 to centerfire is to bush the front of the bolt like shown in the video and make a new firing pin.  It's a pretty simple process for an experienced gunsmith or machinist and can be returned to rimfire relatively easily.  Of course, there will be some shallow threads that aren't original but can't be seen with the original striker installed.  A second bolt would always be ideal if one could be located.  
Mark
  

You are probably right.  I've never shot them that way.  But the striker is threaded onto the firing pin and is the bushing. Can't you just not thread it on all the way to take up any space?  The striker can't rotate once installed.  I'll have to watch the video again.  I did learn a lesson once.  I had some once fired cases that the backside of the cartridges were bulging out. The original cases will bulge in the rear because there is so much space between the bolt face and the case.  The strikers hit the case and the area between them never touches the case until they bulge. 

Firearms were 'ubiquitous' in my household as well. My children grew up with them in plain sight. It was my job to 'demystify',  and teach and maintain safety through all the curious and formative years.

My favorite teaching experience was to place a revolver, semi auto pistol, bolt action rifle, semi-auto rifle, and shotgun in conspicuous places around the living room, with all the actions closed.  I'd then tell the kids that we'd learn how to identify a 'loaded and unsafe' firearm from across the room.  I'd then ask them to tell me if each firearm was 'loaded' or 'unloaded'.  The correct answer, of course, is that they were always loaded until you picked them up and personally made them 'safe'.

So I'd pick up a  firearm, demonstrate that it was unloaded and safe, then put it back in place. A few minutes later, I'd ask again, 'is that rifle loaded?'.  The initial response would be 'no, it's safe'. But I'd correct them that 'no, it's loaded. It is loaded until you walk over to it, pick it up, and safely determine that it is not.' 

My kids took hunter safety classes at 12 years of age so they could start big game hunting. I always said that if they learned anything new in those classes, then I hadn't done my job well enough.

Paul

A little later, I showed him how to determine if it were loaded and how to open the cylinder and safely carry it by the top strap.  That was about age 6. 

In his Forties he is not an avid hunter but likes to shoot handguns, rifles and shotguns at Skeet. He chased a maraudng mama bear with cubs off with my Model 59 and slugs, without having to kill the bear. I sent him some rubber slugs. 

Bottom line:  I think the best thing is take the mystery away and teach safety early and continually, and make it "fun with Dad."  Kids don't necessarily listen to what you say but they watch and learn from EVERYTHING they see you do.  Especially little boys, who grow up with you as a template. I was nearing 40 when he was born and was grateful for the patience and sense of privilege of being a father. It was the greatest experience in a long life. 

I raised my son the same way. Born into a later generation, he was all in to air soft wars with his friends. I still find 6 mm plastic balls outside around the house. I took him hunting for days at a time in the Alaska wilderness starting at age 5. He shot his first big game animal, a muskox, at age 7. He knew the difference between air soft and the lethality of the real McCoy. And, importantly, so did his friends. Everyone has guns in Alaska. Many are propped up in the arctic entryway. They’re ubiquitous. Those boys were accustomed to their presence and had safe firearm instruction. The guns weren’t a mystical siren calling to them when adults weren’t around. 

https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-hunting-shooting-reloading/shooting-a-1866-with-a-black-powder-rim-fire/

Bob

Chuck said
 
Or buy a new firing pin and the striker and modify them.  Grind the pins off the striker and have a pin inserted in the end of the firing pin.  This will allow you to shoot center fire.  
  

Chuck. I like your enthusiasm for the simplicity of converting an 1866 to centerfire.  However, this is exactly the type of improper conversion I talked about in the video and even showed a firing pin/striker assembly that had been converted in the manner you described.  It's a very bad idea to fire one that's been converted this way (don't ask me how I know) When converted this way, the face of the striker and the newly installed firing pin retract into the bolt far enough that the primers back out nearly all the way and most of the time are now unseated enough that they are impaled on the firing pin when the cartridge is ejected.  

Take it from me, it's not a lot of fun to clean up the black powder blown past the primer (and possibly the primer itself) out of your receiver after firing, not to mention lovely experience of the puff of burnt black powder exiting the top of the receiver.  Note the two puffs of black powder smoke from this never before released still photo. This 1866 was fired using the converted striker shown in the recent video.  It caused no damage, but it sure made a mess in the receiver.

In my experience, the only correct way to convert to a Henry or 1866 to centerfire is to bush the front of the bolt like shown in the video and make a new firing pin.  It's a pretty simple process for an experienced gunsmith or machinist and can be returned to rimfire relatively easily.  Of course, there will be some shallow threads that aren't original but can't be seen with the original striker installed.  A second bolt would always be ideal if one could be located.  

Mark

You can make the ammo yourself once you modify some cases or buy a couple parts and modify them.  S&W 44 SPL or Russian cases will work.  They have to be shortened.

If you don't mind single loading the cases you can have the primer pockets filled.  I'm not sure if it is done by brazing, soldering or what?  Then you drill an offset hole for the blanks.  After firing pop out the blank and start over. 

Or buy a new firing pin and the striker and modify them.  Grind the pins off the striker and have a pin inserted in the end of the firing pin.  This will allow you to shoot center fire.  It is extremely important to get the new pin the correct length so you don't get slam fires. 

I use a die from Lee Precision to swage down 45 ACP bullets to .443".  Then I heal the bullets.  I don't have a die so I squeeze the seated bullets by pushing them into a chamfered hole of the proper diameter. 

Mark Douglas said

mrcvs said

Mark Douglas said

Cowboy103 said
If one was ever able to acquire a good shooting centerfire 66 would It be possible to order some rounds from you? Would pay good money as expected.

Unfortunately, our gunsmithing insurance policy won't cover us for manufacturing ammunition unless we send them a boatload of money.  We've considered manufacturing obsolete ammunition in the past.  However, the cost of liability insurance and the inevitable intermittent component shortages have kept us from taking that plunge.  To make it economically feasible, we'd have to produce fairly large quantities on a consistent basis.
If you reload, I bought the 44 Henry dies from CH4D and the bullet molds and crimp die from Old West Bullet Molds.  Remember that the 44 Henry is a heeled base bullet and there is a definite learning curve to getting a correct crimp with a collet-type crimp die used for heeled base bullets.  Mark
  

What if you manufactured it and sold it to a customer provided they agreed to sign a waiver?
  

I'm certainly not a lawyer, but it's my understanding that waivers are nearly worthless when it comes to product liability.  Even if we were to prevail against a claim in a court of law, it would likely ruin us financially.  To risk everything without any liability insurance just to sell a few rounds of obsolete ammo would be taking on far more risk than I would ever consider. 
I'd encourage anyone who wants to shoot these 1866's to make their own ammo for them. The tooling and components are available.  Besides, making your own ammo is a big part of the fun.  Mark 
  

Well said and explained Mark! As a previous business owner, the word "NO", was a very important thing to adhere to, and made for many successful years, for us. You didn't get to where you are by mistake, as you've earned you're great reputation and following.

Tony

mrcvs said

Mark Douglas said

Cowboy103 said
If one was ever able to acquire a good shooting centerfire 66 would It be possible to order some rounds from you? Would pay good money as expected.

Unfortunately, our gunsmithing insurance policy won't cover us for manufacturing ammunition unless we send them a boatload of money.  We've considered manufacturing obsolete ammunition in the past.  However, the cost of liability insurance and the inevitable intermittent component shortages have kept us from taking that plunge.  To make it economically feasible, we'd have to produce fairly large quantities on a consistent basis.
If you reload, I bought the 44 Henry dies from CH4D and the bullet molds and crimp die from Old West Bullet Molds.  Remember that the 44 Henry is a heeled base bullet and there is a definite learning curve to getting a correct crimp with a collet-type crimp die used for heeled base bullets.  Mark
  

What if you manufactured it and sold it to a customer provided they agreed to sign a waiver?
  

I'm certainly not a lawyer, but it's my understanding that waivers are nearly worthless when it comes to product liability.  Even if we were to prevail against a claim in a court of law, it would likely ruin us financially.  To risk everything without any liability insurance just to sell a few rounds of obsolete ammo would be taking on far more risk than I would ever consider. 

I'd encourage anyone who wants to shoot these 1866's to make their own ammo for them. The tooling and components are available.  Besides, making your own ammo is a big part of the fun.  Mark 

Mark Douglas said

Cowboy103 said
If one was ever able to acquire a good shooting centerfire 66 would It be possible to order some rounds from you? Would pay good money as expected.

Unfortunately, our gunsmithing insurance policy won't cover us for manufacturing ammunition unless we send them a boatload of money.  We've considered manufacturing obsolete ammunition in the past.  However, the cost of liability insurance and the inevitable intermittent component shortages have kept us from taking that plunge.  To make it economically feasible, we'd have to produce fairly large quantities on a consistent basis.
If you reload, I bought the 44 Henry dies from CH4D and the bullet molds and crimp die from Old West Bullet Molds.  Remember that the 44 Henry is a heeled base bullet and there is a definite learning curve to getting a correct crimp with a collet-type crimp die used for heeled base bullets.  Mark
  

What if you manufactured it and sold it to a customer provided they agreed to sign a waiver?

Cowboy103 said

If one was ever able to acquire a good shooting centerfire 66 would It be possible to order some rounds from you? Would pay good money as expected.

Unfortunately, our gunsmithing insurance policy won't cover us for manufacturing ammunition unless we send them a boatload of money.  We've considered manufacturing obsolete ammunition in the past.  However, the cost of liability insurance and the inevitable intermittent component shortages have kept us from taking that plunge.  To make it economically feasible, we'd have to produce fairly large quantities on a consistent basis.

If you reload, I bought the 44 Henry dies from CH4D and the bullet molds and crimp die from Old West Bullet Molds.  Remember that the 44 Henry is a heeled base bullet and there is a definite learning curve to getting a correct crimp with a collet-type crimp die used for heeled base bullets.  Mark

steve004 said
I'm just reflecting that the two extremely nice Model 1866's, featured in this thread, were purchased by women.  Not that there's anything wrong about that.  I'd like to see even more of that
  

Amen Steve! I’m not sure which is more impressive in this post, the 66’s or the woman? In either case and in my humble opinion, neither are average 😀 congrats guys!

Here is the link: https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-hunting-shooting-reloading/shooting-a-1866-with-a-black-powder-rim-fire/

Bob

Mark Douglas said

Buck1967 said

steve004 said
I know the topic of this thread started with, "The average 1866" but Burt Humphrey took us off course with his far from average (i.e. wonderful) '66.  I've never owned a '66 but that's not due to zero desire.  I happened to be watching one of Mark Douglas's videos this morning on the M1866.  This one is also very far from average.  It had great appeal to me.  In fact, if I could own the one in his video and the one Burt has, I'd be ... well... words escape me as to how happy I would be.
Mark has great fun shooting the rifle and does a great job of explaining the topic of conversion from rimfire to centerfire:

  

Stunning video and thanks for sharing! That would indeed be a dream Winchester to own! 
  

Believe it or not, my wife recently acquired that 1866 and encouraged me to make the video.  I married far above my station.
Just yesterday, I loaded up some black powder cartridges and did some more shooting with it.  Mark
  

If one was ever able to acquire a good shooting centerfire 66 would It be possible to order some rounds from you? Would pay good money as expected.