My question has to do with the hand-written card that was unearthed.  The card states that 1303 were made specifically from .30-06 barrels.  Yet some were from .30-03 and .30-40 barrels?  What do we know about those?

Bert H. said

Anthony said
Bert,
Thanks for the extra explanation, as I surly do value that as I'm sure others will!
 
Tony
  

You (and everyone else) are welcome.
As you can most likely tell, I and a "numbers" person.  I have at least 700+ active Excel spreadsheets on my PC, and I add at least a couple more every month.  Some of my Spreadsheets are nearing 30-years old (upgraded of course through the years).  I first began actively creating and using Excel when Office 97 first hit the streets.  In the early years, all formulas had to be manually created (programmed) and inserted.  To this day, I still write all of my own formulas even though Excel now has a few hundred of them built-in.
Bert 
  

  Hey Bert aka numbers guy,

The two type 3 carbines (21.75 bbl dovetailed) are referenced as being part of Gogans survey.

While i assume that he actually held these to survey them, we have not seen pictures to confirm the existence of them.

I would love to see a picture of serials 1033596 and or 1035596 if anyone in our community owns one of them.

Not saying that they do not exist but the other styles are well represented and these not so much.

 Also note the similarity of the serials. typo ?????

 Just observing and trying to learn

 Doug

All points well taken.

Thank you for your input.

FYI, the 1,004,675 number used in my calculation was taken from the Model 1892 synopsis on our WACA website.

Tom

tsbccut said
Thanks again, Michael.
Looks to be about 1.05% (10,549) of total production (1,004,675) by my numbers.
Collector's terms, I know, and most likely subjective, but what are the percentage levels for terms such as "rare" and "scarce" in your opinion? Or is there a standard?
Much appreciated,
Tom
  

Tom,

Speaking only for myself, "rare" is fewer than (10) total specimens, and "scarce" is < 500 specimens.  I would refer to a production total of 10,549 as "slightly uncommon". 

Keep in mind that the total Model 53 production was 15,118, and the total Model 65 production was approximately 7,746.  We do not consider either of those models as "rare" or even "scarce".

Bert

Of the total 1,007,608 number, 4,244 of them were Model 53 rifles serialized in the Model 92 range, and approximately 7,746 more of them were Model 65 rifles all serial numbered in the Model 92 sequence.  All told, the actual total Model 1892/92 production was approximately just 995,618 guns.

Bert

Looks to be about 1.05% (10,549) of total production (1,004,675) by my numbers.

Collector's terms, I know, and most likely subjective, but what are the percentage levels for terms such as "rare" and "scarce" in your opinion? Or is there a standard?

Much appreciated,

Tom

Anthony said
Bert,
Thanks for the extra explanation, as I surly do value that as I'm sure others will!
 
Tony
  

You (and everyone else) are welcome.

As you can most likely tell, I and a "numbers" person.  I have at least 700+ active Excel spreadsheets on my PC, and I add at least a couple more every month.  Some of my Spreadsheets are nearing 30-years old (upgraded of course through the years).  I first began actively creating and using Excel when Office 97 first hit the streets.  In the early years, all formulas had to be manually created (programmed) and inserted.  To this day, I still write all of my own formulas even though Excel now has a few hundred of them built-in.

Bert 

Thanks for the extra explanation, as I surly do value that as I'm sure others will!

Tony

Other than the PR records, there are no surviving records beyond May 1907.

Per the PR records, Winchester serialized 25,912 Model 94 receiver frames in the year 1928 (several thousand of which were assembled as Model 55 rifles). Per my extrapolation table (derived from the current survey totals), of the 25,912 total Model 94 & 55 guns manufactured in the year 1928, Model 94 Carbines made up 17,383 (67%) of the total production.

Thus far, I have surveyed & documented 793 (3.06%) of the 25,912 total rifles & carbines manufactured in the year 1928 (see the table below).  Of that total, 638 are Model 94s, with 532 of them being Carbines, 92 of which are 94/95 Hybrids.  

Bert

That's beautiful work, and very time consuming I'm sure. I like the Excel spread sheet format. 

You indicate you have the 92 documented of the possible 1306 that we're most likely manufactured. With 20,702 numbers between the first serial numbered example in the combined members Survey, and the last serial numbered example. I'm thinking with you're documented research, and the information based on factory records and polishing room records, on the other 19396 remaining examples, which probably had longer barrels, including the known examples and the unknown examples, from surveys. The remaining 1306 having the 20 inch barrels and or the possible 21.75" barrel.  Was this barrel length in the records, indicating a possible Hybrid? 

Tony,

Currently, I have documented (92) of the (1,306) Model 94/95 hybrids that were most likely manufactured. 

By you stating, "Most likely manufactured", it has me wondering, and as Collector/owners of these or possible owners of these, many like to pursue the rare things that might be out there. Being mfg. in 1928, it makes these possibly easier to pursue and maybe something to stumble upon at a gun show vs. say an Antique Winchester that is already harder to find than the proverbial Hens teeth!

You're work along with the others is truly appreciated!

Tony

tsbccut said
Thank you Michael. Great information.
Do you have data that addresses the octagonal barrel part of the question?
What percentage of total 1892-1941 production were sporting rifles?
Tom
  

84% of the 44 WCF takedown frames have octagon shaped barrels.  Sporting rifles made up 70% of the total production.

Michael

Do you have data that addresses the octagonal barrel part of the question?

What percentage of total 1892-1941 production were sporting rifles?

Tom

Currently, I have documented (92) of the (1,306) Model 94/95 hybrids that were most likely manufactured.  Based on the serial numbers and their associated PR dates, I believe that Winchester assembled all of them very late in the year 1928.  As of now, all (92) found thus far have a 1928 PR date, with the vast majority of them in the late May to early October time period.  The tables below are a snap-shot of my current Excel survey file.

Bert

tsbccut said
A question probably most easily answered by Michael. How uncommon is a Model 92 takedown standard Sporting rifle with octagonal barrel in .44 W.C.F.?
 
Thanks,
Tom
  

Hello Tom,

It is interesting to see the distribution of the various calibers as presented in takedown frame rifles.  I have calculated this a couple of times as I continue to gather more samples in my survey.  Approximately 10% of all sporting rifles were manufactured with takedown frames.  The relative popularity is inverse to the caliber size. 

25-20 WCF 39%

32 WCF 29%

38 WCF 16%

44 WCF 15%

I hope this helps

Michael

Thanks,

Tom