Zebulon said

Bert H. said

slk said
I was able to pick up the lyman cast bullet book today. Not a lot of options for cast in 218 but i like it for a lot of the other calibers i cast for. 
Actually I guess you can expect there to be lots of loads for it. 
I use that same bullet mold 225438 for my 22 hornet loads. For some reason I have never been able to get good groups from a cast bullet in 22 hornet. I have a Rugger in 22 hornet that i can drive nails in with if i use the hornady varment bee jacketed bullet. The cast bullets to date have been quite disappointing for the hornet. 
  

This is just my opinion, but varmint cartridges (like the 218 Bee and 22 hornet) were never designed to shoot low velocity or cast bullets.  From many years of experience, the 22 Hornet excels when the velocities are near the maximum end of the scale... not something you can do when shooting cast bullets.  If you cannot shoot sub MOA groups with your 22 Hornet, change your load specs to something with a faster velocity.
Bert
  

Bert,  I agree with you neither cartridge was designed for cast lead and, if accuracy is the criterion, a 45 grain spitzer [or a 35 grain V-max] at near maximum velocities is the clear answer. My [former] Anschutz Hornet was the most accurate rifle I've ever owned. The krauts voided any warranty if you shot handloads - probably afraid of stretched case separations from the low-shouldered case AND their rear-locking Match 64 action. But it was a tackdriver. 
Now, the Anschutz barrel was rifled with a 1-14 twist, which seems to have been the convention for the cartridge.  However, the Hornet for which I once loaded some 50-52 grain cast lead at <2000 fs,  was a Kimber of Oregon 82B with a 1-10 barrel. While the load was never meant for more than minute of gobbler or hen ( in the Fall), it  was capable of near one MOA at 75 yards. 
We can doubtless agree the better edible small game load is a 25 or 32 WCF -- or a Krag shooting 110 grain .308 bullets over 4759 -- but perhaps the inaccuracy people experience with cast lead in the Hornet is at least partially due to low velocity plus slow rate of twist. 
  

I spent 2+ hours in my reloading (man) cave last evening loading up a sizeable batch of 22 Hornets using a 40-gr V-Max.  I chose 12.5 grains of Lil Gun and loaded it in a full box (50) Remington (R - P) nickel plated brass cases.  I intend to shoot them in the Model 54 Hornet I bought from Ted and Lou kindly delivered to me at the Cody show last year.  Just for fun, I loaded a smaller batch with 13.0 grains (a slightly compressed load).  Those 40-grain V-Max bullets are real pretty!

For those that might be in need of 22 Hornet brass, I still have 5,000 W-W SUPER NPEs, and 2,600 R-P Match NPEs that are for sale.  I will bring it all with me to the Cody show this year for those who want to pick it up in person.

Bert

tim tomlinson said
I have an old farmer friend who casts a lot of lead bullets.  Years ago he was one who Lyman would call and ask for help.  Anyway, he spent the winter casting .22 gas check bullets and testing in two identical .223 rifles.  One would shoot nice 50 yard groups while the other looked like he was shooting buck shot.  Unlike me, he has steady hands and still had gas checks all over the floor and had a very hard time getting them on straight on the bullet shanks.  My 86 grain bullet for the .25-20 is now beyond my ability to do.  Drop bullets, drop or shake powder out of the case, etc.  My left hand is the worse of the two and I have long ingrained habit of handling cartridges and bullets with the left to put onto the cartridge holder of my press.  I can't even imagine handling tiny cast gas checks or cast bullets in .22 calibers.  The very base of a bullet is critical to be straight, fully filled and square.  Magnification for inspection is necessary to having good and consistent bullets.  Its easier the bigger the bullet! You are in an area many  fear to go.  Tim
  

Tim,  although the ravages of age frustrate us all, the solution for tremor -- which comes and goes for me, too -- and small bore, gas checked bullets, is a phone call or Web order to one of the fine commercial bullet casters.  A virtual swipe of your plastic and like magic a box of very nice .224 gas-checked, cast lead bullets will appear at your door. Brought to you by a sweating, cursing mail person. Trust me. 

Bert H. said

slk said
I was able to pick up the lyman cast bullet book today. Not a lot of options for cast in 218 but i like it for a lot of the other calibers i cast for. 
Actually I guess you can expect there to be lots of loads for it. 
I use that same bullet mold 225438 for my 22 hornet loads. For some reason I have never been able to get good groups from a cast bullet in 22 hornet. I have a Rugger in 22 hornet that i can drive nails in with if i use the hornady varment bee jacketed bullet. The cast bullets to date have been quite disappointing for the hornet. 
  

This is just my opinion, but varmint cartridges (like the 218 Bee and 22 hornet) were never designed to shoot low velocity or cast bullets.  From many years of experience, the 22 Hornet excels when the velocities are near the maximum end of the scale... not something you can do when shooting cast bullets.  If you cannot shoot sub MOA groups with your 22 Hornet, change your load specs to something with a faster velocity.
Bert
  

Bert,  I agree with you neither cartridge was designed for cast lead and, if accuracy is the criterion, a 45 grain spitzer [or a 35 grain V-max] at near maximum velocities is the clear answer. My [former] Anschutz Hornet was the most accurate rifle I've ever owned. The krauts voided any warranty if you shot handloads - probably afraid of stretched case separations from the low-shouldered case AND their rear-locking Match 64 action. But it was a tackdriver. 

Now, the Anschutz barrel was rifled with a 1-14 twist, which seems to have been the convention for the cartridge.  However, the Hornet for which I once loaded some 50-52 grain cast lead at <2000 fs,  was a Kimber of Oregon 82B with a 1-10 barrel. While the load was never meant for more than minute of gobbler or hen ( in the Fall), it  was capable of near one MOA at 75 yards. 

We can doubtless agree the better edible small game load is a 25 or 32 WCF -- or a Krag shooting 110 grain .308 bullets over 4759 -- but perhaps the inaccuracy people experience with cast lead in the Hornet is at least partially due to low velocity plus slow rate of twist. 

Seating the bullet on top of the brass is where I drop some. It is a balancing act to get them started straight. 

I have 3 loads ready to go for the 218 bee. One is a cast bullet. One is the speer flat nose. One is the hornady varment bee. All are .224  in 46 grain. Just have to get to the range and see which one does the best. 

slk said
I was able to pick up the lyman cast bullet book today. Not a lot of options for cast in 218 but i like it for a lot of the other calibers i cast for. 
Actually I guess you can expect there to be lots of loads for it. 
I use that same bullet mold 225438 for my 22 hornet loads. For some reason I have never been able to get good groups from a cast bullet in 22 hornet. I have a Rugger in 22 hornet that i can drive nails in with if i use the hornady varment bee jacketed bullet. The cast bullets to date have been quite disappointing for the hornet. 
  

This is just my opinion, but varmint cartridges (like the 218 Bee and 22 hornet) were never designed to shoot low velocity or cast bullets.  From many years of experience, the 22 Hornet excels when the velocities are near the maximum end of the scale... not something you can do when shooting cast bullets.  If you cannot shoot sub MOA groups with your 22 Hornet, change your load specs to something with a faster velocity.

Bert

Mike

The small .224 diameters given me a fit. I mean 3-4 “ groups are not what i would call good. Hopefully the new lyman cast book will give me some new things to try. 

Steve 

slk said
I was able to pick up the lyman cast bullet book today. Not a lot of options for cast in 218 but i like it for a lot of the other calibers i cast for. 
Actually I guess you can expect there to be lots of loads for it. 
I use that same bullet mold 225438 for my 22 hornet loads. For some reason I have never been able to get good groups from a cast bullet in 22 hornet. I have a Rugger in 22 hornet that i can drive nails in with if i use the hornady varment bee jacketed bullet. The cast bullets to date have been quite disappointing for the hornet. 
  

As you probably know the first rule of cast bullets is know your bore size. An appropriate alloy for this velocity will likely not obturate to fill the bore so the bullet should be sized to bore size +.001 or .002". Cast bullets in 22 caliber is a challenge best taken up by stubborn reloaders with very good casting skills and so far I haven't ventured into that rabbit hole. I applaud your efforts but will likely observe your endeavor from the sidelines. 

Mike

PS: There's a lot of very good information in your new book. Take the time to read the opening chapters, I think some of them are MLV's best work.

MH

Actually I guess you can expect there to be lots of loads for it. 

I use that same bullet mold 225438 for my 22 hornet loads. For some reason I have never been able to get good groups from a cast bullet in 22 hornet. I have a Rugger in 22 hornet that i can drive nails in with if i use the hornady varment bee jacketed bullet. The cast bullets to date have been quite disappointing for the hornet. 

One of my favorite loading manuals is Lyman's 4th Edition Cast Bullet Handbook. It lists loads for Lyman's 225438 (44gr GC) and their 225415 (55gr GC) and notes that IMR4198 produced uniform results. Starting/accuracy load listed for the 44gr bullet is 11.7 grs IMR4198 @ 2003fps, 55gr pill is 10.8grs IMR4198 for 1810 fps. I have no experience with this cartridge so use this data at your own risk! I don't cast anything smaller than 30 caliber and seldom load anything in 22 caliber. A properly sized and lubed GC bullet in a good or preferably excellent bore should be able to handle velocities over 2000 fps, the Lyman CB manual lists loads for this cartridge approaching 2300fps but the lower loads look like the best starting point. 

Mike

https://reloadingdata.speer.com/downloads/speer/reloading-pdfs/rifle/218_Bee_46.pdf

He is one heck of a nice guy and he was very careful in double boxing it so the original box would not get messed up. 

Where Browning messed up was listening to some dim bulb when designing the gaudy Grade II versions. I had an 1895 30/06 that would consistently do 3-shot 1.25" groups with factory 150 grain CoreLokt. And I dont shoot well with barrel mounted iron sights. But it was a Grade II and it hurt my eyes. My lease partners laughed at me. So I sold it. 

By the time Browning built the 53, they'd gotten smarter and just upgraded the wood and added checkering and a good replica grip cap.

I still have two of the last Browning branded reproductions, a Model 12 20 gauge and a Model 42. They are permanent.