The only people seemingly free of this risk are the Weatherby addicts. I have never heard of a Mark V action being damaged or damaging its shooter, as long as you don't count cuts and concussions caused by recoil. There are two possible reasons for  this. First, the breech of the action resembles that of a 16" gun in a main battery of New Jersey (BB 62). Second, the published velocities of Norma ammunition for the .378, .416, and .460 Weatherby cartridges, whether completely accurate or not, together with the actual horrendous  recoil they produce, is so intimidating nobody is inclined to say, "That's too slow."  After their head clears. 

The other was a 1000 yard rifle built specifically for the long range event in over-the-course matches. It was built on a 7mm Rem Mag, and with the Sierra 168 gr Target Master Boat tail bullet and IMR 4831, it got tighter groups as I approached and passed all the catalog loads. I finally settled on a load which allows me only 2 or 3 firings before the primers fall out of the pockets.  I was OK with replacing brass frequently as a trade off for match accuracy, but only because there were so few 1000 yard matches.  I wouldn't have done that with my 'over-the-course- match rifle.

But I think we've strayed from the original point here. The point being made by me and I think others, is that over the years, many loading manuals have reduced their maximum loads due primarily or exclusively to liability concerns, and not necessarily because someone blew up a firearm from the previously posted loads.  Think of Zeb's quote 'corporate house counsel have the imagination of a frightened child alone in the dark'.  Those corporate attorneys are afraid of what may happen, and not necessarily reacting to anything which has actually happened.

Paul

Mike

Bert H. said

In answer to your question, Winchester manufactured just (2) high-wall rifles chambered for the Sharps 50 3-1/4 cartridge.
Bert
  

Sharps went out of business in 1881.  There are no records stating that Sharps ever manufactured this cartridge.  In my opinion, unless someone can produce a Sharps document saying otherwise, this is a Winchester cartridge. 

Zebulon said
I've often said corporate house counsel have the imagination of a frightened child alone in the dark. 
There is a reason for this forced conservatism. If you bless a proposed action and nothing bad happens, you get no credit for being right. Bonuses and promotions go to the operations team.
But if you bless the action and the company gets gutshot by the  plaintiffs' bar -- you lose your seat on the Gulfstream and get replaced by Irving Brilliant, young Harvard lawyer and former member of the outside firm that lost the case after charging your company 6 million. Why? Because a senior partner of that firm, who went to private school with your CEO, whispered in his ear it was all your fault for blessing a bad idea. 
You have a house in Westchester County mortgaged to its chimney tops,  two kids in big name prep schools, a wife whose social calendar rivals that of a head of state. All of which, including your marriage, will go down the chute if you are so useless you get fired.
So, counsel, what do you think about our new powder, Dyno-Mite 86? 
  

So, counsel, what do you think about our new powder, Dyno-Mite 86? 

The answer, clearly will be, 'let's market it but reduce the suggested loading data by 3-5%' (or more).

There is a reason for this forced conservatism. If you bless a proposed action and nothing bad happens, you get no credit for being right. Bonuses and promotions go to the operations team.

But if you bless the action and the company gets gutshot by the  plaintiffs' bar -- you lose your seat on the Gulfstream and get replaced by Irving Brilliant, young Harvard lawyer and former member of the outside firm that lost the case after charging your company 6 million. Why? Because a senior partner of that firm, who went to private school with your CEO, whispered in his ear it was all your fault for blessing a bad idea. 

You have a house in Westchester County mortgaged to its chimney tops,  two kids in big name prep schools, a wife whose social calendar rivals that of a head of state. All of which, including your marriage, will go down the chute if you are so useless you get fired.

So, counsel, what do you think about our new powder, Dyno-Mite 86? 

Bert H. said

John D. said

TXGunNut said

Bert H. said

TXGunNut said
My new P365 is coming up on that 1000 round mark, guess I better have a recoil spring handy next time I clean it. It likes a full case of Unique but there are cleaner powders. I just happen to have lots of Unique.
 
Mike
  

Yes there is... I stopped loading with Unique because it is a dirty powder, and it takes significantly less Bullseye to get the same result as compared to loading with Unique.  You being the miser that you are can certainly relate to that
Bert
  

I use what I have, Bert. Not sure I can afford powder today. All kidding aside "Flaming Dirt" (Unique) is actually fairly clean in some of the loads I use it for. Unique is also a very versatile powder, it may not be ideal for every cartridge but it works for many of the cartridges I like. Many levergun cartridges can be loaded with 8-10 grains of Unique for fun plinking loads. Can't get much cheaper than that, especially when my bullets are recycled wheel weights. My EDC guns collect lint, sweat and grit so when I decide they need cleaning I'll go run a box of ammo through it to make sure it needs cleaning. 
 
Mike
  

I use 10gr of Unique with great success in Cowboy Lever-gun Silhouette, in my 38-55 1894.  Soft shooter, knocks the rams down at 200 yards.
  

I have not ever tried Unique for loading the 38-55.  What weight bullet are you using, and what velocity are you getting?
Bert
  

I use both a Bear Creek 240gr moly coated as well as a Montana 255gr cast lead bullet with the 10gr of Unique. I don't recall the velocity offhand, but seem to remember it was in the 1200-1300 range.

John D. said

TXGunNut said

Bert H. said

TXGunNut said
My new P365 is coming up on that 1000 round mark, guess I better have a recoil spring handy next time I clean it. It likes a full case of Unique but there are cleaner powders. I just happen to have lots of Unique.
 
Mike
  

Yes there is... I stopped loading with Unique because it is a dirty powder, and it takes significantly less Bullseye to get the same result as compared to loading with Unique.  You being the miser that you are can certainly relate to that
Bert
  

I use what I have, Bert. Not sure I can afford powder today. All kidding aside "Flaming Dirt" (Unique) is actually fairly clean in some of the loads I use it for. Unique is also a very versatile powder, it may not be ideal for every cartridge but it works for many of the cartridges I like. Many levergun cartridges can be loaded with 8-10 grains of Unique for fun plinking loads. Can't get much cheaper than that, especially when my bullets are recycled wheel weights. My EDC guns collect lint, sweat and grit so when I decide they need cleaning I'll go run a box of ammo through it to make sure it needs cleaning. 
 
Mike
  

I use 10gr of Unique with great success in Cowboy Lever-gun Silhouette, in my 38-55 1894.  Soft shooter, knocks the rams down at 200 yards.
  

I have not ever tried Unique for loading the 38-55.  What weight bullet are you using, and what velocity are you getting?

Bert

TXGunNut said

Bert H. said

TXGunNut said
My new P365 is coming up on that 1000 round mark, guess I better have a recoil spring handy next time I clean it. It likes a full case of Unique but there are cleaner powders. I just happen to have lots of Unique.
 
Mike
  

Yes there is... I stopped loading with Unique because it is a dirty powder, and it takes significantly less Bullseye to get the same result as compared to loading with Unique.  You being the miser that you are can certainly relate to that
Bert
  

I use what I have, Bert. Not sure I can afford powder today. All kidding aside "Flaming Dirt" (Unique) is actually fairly clean in some of the loads I use it for. Unique is also a very versatile powder, it may not be ideal for every cartridge but it works for many of the cartridges I like. Many levergun cartridges can be loaded with 8-10 grains of Unique for fun plinking loads. Can't get much cheaper than that, especially when my bullets are recycled wheel weights. My EDC guns collect lint, sweat and grit so when I decide they need cleaning I'll go run a box of ammo through it to make sure it needs cleaning. 
 
Mike
  

I use 10gr of Unique with great success in Cowboy Lever-gun Silhouette, in my 38-55 1894.  Soft shooter, knocks the rams down at 200 yards.

steve004 said
Very interesting thread.  As usual, the knowledge and experience shared here is top-rate.  I've never loaded black powder in any cartridge.  The closest I've come is using Pyrodex CTG (long discontinued) in many cartridges, including the .45-70.  Once I used up the couple pounds I had, that was that.
  

With all due apologies to Hodgdon, Pyrodex is nasty! It has driven many thousands of shooters and reloaders away from loading Holy Black into the cartridges that were made for it. At least Triple 7 is water soluble, but still a poor substitute for BP. I sometimes wonder why some folks make it seem like cleaning a firearm after firing Holy Black is such a chore. I'll chalk it up to scaring the tourists. 

Mike

wave.jaco said
Thank you for the guidance, Bert. I agree, it's good and safe practice to start with a reduced start load and work up from there and chronograph. "To measure is to know".
I would still like to know what I got wrong in Gordons Reloading Tool, since its output now seems to be questionable at best, which defeats its purpose.
  

I cannot help you with the Gordons Reloading Tool as I have never used it.  I am relatively certain that 12 grains of 2400 is not an over pressure load for the 32 WSL.  I have loaded a lot of 22 Hornet and 38 WCF with it.  For the 22 Hornet, I load 10.5 grains of A2400 under a 40-gr V-Max.  For the 38 WCF, I load 22.0 grains under a 180-gr XTP.  Neither load is high pressure.  I am curious what your Gordons program has to say about my loads.

Bert

I would still like to know what I got wrong in Gordons Reloading Tool, since its output now seems to be questionable at best, which defeats its purpose.

As a former PPC and Outdoor Pistol (Bullseye) shooter I'm familiar with BE. I haven't shot a match gun in over 20 years but I probably have a few pounds of BE stashed somewhere even though I generally used 231. I have an 8lb bottle of Unique plus a handful of one pound bottles so I'm set for awhile. My 9mm Unique load is only 1.2 grs more than your BE load (under a 115gr bullet) but that means you get nearly 300 more rounds/pound so your point is valid. My mentor gave me that load over 40 years ago and it's the only load I remembered after not loading for the 9mm for over 30 years. Unique is very dirty in a moderate 38 Spl load but is actually fairly clean in a max 9mm load. It also works well in straight walled rifle cases up to and including the 45-70 but I don't have much data for Unique in the bottleneck cartridges other than 38WCF, that's why this thread caught my eye. I don't think it worked as well as 231 in the 32WCF but it's possibly because my 32WCF load only uses about 3 grains of 231. Other than appearance I don't think the 25WCF and 32WCF have much in common but I haven't started my 25WCF adventure yet. 

Mike