Steve

Calling the person Cody referenced to verify, will certainly help determine what he's about to acquire. IMO Pretty sure we know who the party is, as I have an idea myself, thinking they recommended someone who frequents here on occasion. There isn't a larger more knowledgeable group anywhere in the World, better than this WACA Forum, to try to honestly distinguish, the factual manufacturing of a Winchester Rifle. 

Ben,

You're Custom M-53 G.& H. Rifle, is phenomenal. We never get tired of seeing it. Refresh my memory please. Did that come with G. & H. Documentation?

I'm in agreement with Bill on his statements about, that top notch outfit!

Thanks again for sharing it.

Purely Speculation, and some thoughts.

If serial number #13, M-52 was pulled and possibly made into a custom rifle, and probably not gone to the Caldwell, New Jersey Competition, with the U.S. Dewar Shooting Team. One would think that it was pulled and set aside for a reason, and or a special assignment. With few details, waiting on pics. and more information, the Schnabel forend, and horn pistol grip, butt plate with a trap door in it, are most certainly possible, but by who is naturally the question. Who D/T it for the a-5 scope? The checkered stock work, with the raised comb and possible added parts to do so, are not uncommon in some later M-52 rifles. This one could possibly be the first M-52 with many firsts on it, including the Schnabel forend we see on other manufactured rifles of the time period.

The first 12 rifles off of the assembly line we're no where anything like what is described here in this specimen, as they we're all target versions of the first M-52 rifles. The G22R samples used at Caldwell we're a hit, as that's no secret.

We know "when it comes to Winchester we never say never", but this one has me curiously wondering.  I'm certainly looking forward to hearing more about this and the verifying information that hopefully will accompany it

Tony

That G&H is about as high class as a custom 52 can get. What they could do with a barreled action - of anything -- put Holland and Purdey in the shade. That long forearm they favor is distinctive and says Griffin & Howe from across the room. 

If G&H had stocked a Snake Charmer, I'd buy it sight unseen (if I weren’t already gun-poor.)

The feather crotch Black Walnut on the other rifle is very impressive, too.  That kind of American stump is getting mighty seldom. 

The price you take in these two pieces is fully justified. 

Bill

If you don't give that G&H range time at least twice a year, the ghost of James Howe may pay you an evening visit. If you ever smell cutting oil and carbon black in the night, that's a warning. 

Here's a Griffin & Howe custom and another custom from the 1930's... they have been previously discussed in this forum, but I still can't believe I own them... 🙂

Ben said
If it does turn out to be serial number 13, it should be able to be traced.  Seewin (resident 52 guru & all around good guy) should be along shortly to fill in the blanks.  JWA is also well versed in these as well.  My 2 cents... as long as the barreled action hasn't been modified, cut, re-blued or violated in some nefarious way, pursue it.. don't hesitate...get your wallet out and buy it.  Congratultions in advance... we still want pics...  Cheers.  Ben
  

It has been purchased, awaiting its arrival.  I will post pics and look for any advice to try to figure out the history of the rifle.

TXGunNut said
Michael-
There's a good possibility this rifle has a custom stock, not unusual for a match rifle. Without factory records or provenance this will be what we call a "story" rifle. Wise collectors will advise you to buy the rifle, not the story. Speculation is worth little to a serious collector. OTOH if someone spent the money on a custom stock I'm betting it's a very good shooter. This may be your best opportunity to chase down or request provenance. What are your plans or expectations for this rifle?
 
Mike
  

No expectations, plan to just add it to the collection.  The only facts I do have about the rifle are the deluxe stock, scope etc.  The rifle unfortunately doesn’t have a passed down story, or any additional information attached to this rifle. 

There's a good possibility this rifle has a custom stock, not unusual for a match rifle. Without factory records or provenance this will be what we call a "story" rifle. Wise collectors will advise you to buy the rifle, not the story. Speculation is worth little to a serious collector. OTOH if someone spent the money on a custom stock I'm betting it's a very good shooter. This may be your best opportunity to chase down or request provenance. What are your plans or expectations for this rifle?

Mike

Ben said
Pics are important... 
  

Yeah I know, unfortunately I don’t have the rifle in possession just yet.   I have contacted the Cody museum about the rifle and they stated they don’t have records on the early 52’s.  When I mentioned the rifle has the a-5 scope, deluxe stock checkering ect the individual I was speaking with stated those were unusual additions and gave me an email to someone who may be able to provide some info.  I haven’t contacted that person yet, waiting to get possession so I can take photos. I am looking to see if anyone here would know how best to tell if the additions that are on the rifle could have been factory additions or aftermarket.  I do know that the first 12 rifles were given to the US Dewar Team to compete with at the shooting match in Caldwell New Jersey in August 1919.  This would make 13 the next one out of the factory.  I have had some speculate that this could have also been an upgraded rifle for a special order or a Winchester executive,  but this is just speculation and have not been able to find any evidence to support this claim.  

Bert H. said
Very nice pair... I have a Model 1890 and 1906 pair, but do not have a Model 61 & 62 pair (yet).  I am working on finding a decent Model 61 22 WMR.
Bert
  

I'm confident opportunities will abound at Cody.... 🙂

Bert

1960 Win 61 & 1957 62A.... both in very nice condition... 

Zebulon said

Bert H. said

Zebulon said
Ben,  the " Browning Bros" marking and the good bore in an early rimfire are well worth the money you paid for that one!
Unless somebody knows something I don't know or the serial indicates a d.o.m. too late for the proposition, this rifle was likely part of the payment to Browning for one of the designs he sold to Winchester, although not necessarily for the Model 1890 design rights.
My understanding was Winchester paid Browning Bros for design rights with a combination of cash and merchandise, the latter of which was then taken into inventory and sold at retail by Browning Bros at their Ogden store. 
Your rifle really brings that history to life. 
Congratulations. 
  

It is indeed a "patent" payment rifle.  I have (3) Single Shot rifles and (1) Model 1873 rifle with the similar marking.  The early Winchester patent payment guns were marked "U.T." for Utah Territory.
After Utah became a state (in January 1896), the Browning brothers removed the "T." from the stamp;
Bert
  

Bert,  Because you have a patent payment Model 1873,  would it be correct to say patent payment arms consisted of whatever Winchester models Browning Bros. wanted for inventory at the time? That is, there was no correlation between the models ordered as partial payment and the  model patented for which  the payment was due.
  

Bill,

Yes, that is true.  The Browning Brothers undoubtedly provided Winchester with a list of the Models they wanted and how many.

Bert