Zebulon said

Chuck said
I love the highwalls and have 2 sharps.  The 1885's were late to the game.
These dates are when a single shot target rifle came out.
Sharps 1874, Remington 1873, Ballard/Marlin 1876, Marlin 1881, Maynard 1873, Peabody/Martini 1875, Whitney 1871, Phoenix/Eli Whitney 1874, Frank Wesson 1870, Bullard 1883/84, Stevens 1886.
  

This thread made me curious about two events: The first design for a commercially produced percussion ignition falling block rifle and the first design for a commercially produced metallic cartridge falling block rifle (including conversions). Worldwide.
Christian Sharps wins the percussion race with his 1848 patent.  Charles Ballard wins in  the metallic cartridge category with his 1861 patent. 
I had thought Alexander Henry or Farquharson might have been first with a metallic cartridge falling block but Henry's was not patented until 1865 and Farquharson's not until 1875.   Neither entered the firearms market until the metallic cartridge Era was underway. 
Unless I've somehow overlooked earlier European or Asian designs, it looks like American inventors schooled the World on falling block rifles. 
  

Target shooting really took off after the center fire cartridges were developed.  In most cases the Europeans were usually ahead of the Americans.  I may have data for the English and German rifles.  I'll have to look.  In 1873 the Irish were the champions. At least in the countries around Britain.  The US team beat them the 2 times they met. 

Chuck said
I love the highwalls and have 2 sharps.  The 1885's were late to the game.
These dates are when a single shot target rifle came out.
Sharps 1874, Remington 1873, Ballard/Marlin 1876, Marlin 1881, Maynard 1873, Peabody/Martini 1875, Whitney 1871, Phoenix/Eli Whitney 1874, Frank Wesson 1870, Bullard 1883/84, Stevens 1886.
  

This thread made me curious about two events: The first design for a commercially produced percussion ignition falling block rifle and the first design for a commercially produced metallic cartridge falling block rifle (including conversions). Worldwide.

Christian Sharps wins the percussion race with his 1848 patent.  Charles Ballard wins in  the metallic cartridge category with his 1861 patent. 

I had thought Alexander Henry or Farquharson might have been first with a metallic cartridge falling block but Henry's was not patented until 1865 and Farquharson's not until 1875.   Neither entered the firearms market until the metallic cartridge Era was underway. 

Unless I've somehow overlooked earlier European or Asian designs, it looks like American inventors schooled the World on falling block rifles. 

Chuck said
I watched that John Wayne movie just a few days ago.
  

Classic!!!

I never tire of it myself, even after several watches!

Tony

North America’s bison herd was pretty much wiped out before 1890. Good thing target shooting was popular! Winchester’s Single Shot all but missed the era of the buffalo rifle.

Mike

I'm in agreement with you Mike.

The Wapiti we're wiped out, and so was the Whiskey! "We go home"!

Tony

Chuck said
I love the highwalls and have 2 sharps.  The 1885's were late to the game.
These dates are when a single shot target rifle came out.
Sharps 1874, Remington 1873, Ballard/Marlin 1876, Marlin 1881, Maynard 1873, Peabody/Martini 1875, Whitney 1871, Phoenix/Eli Whitney 1874, Frank Wesson 1870, Bullard 1883/84, Stevens 1886.
  

North America’s bison herd was pretty much wiped out before 1890. Good thing target shooting was popular! Winchester’s Single Shot all but missed the era of the buffalo rifle. 

Mike

Chuck said
I love the highwalls and have 2 sharps.  The 1885's were late to the game.
These dates are when a single shot target rifle came out.
Sharps 1874, Remington 1873, Ballard/Marlin 1876, Marlin 1881, Maynard 1873, Peabody/Martini 1875, Whitney 1871, Phoenix/Eli Whitney 1874, Frank Wesson 1870, Bullard 1883/84, Stevens 1886.
  

We have the same likes once again!

Great additional info Chuck!

Tony

These dates are when a single shot target rifle came out.

Sharps 1874, Remington 1873, Ballard/Marlin 1876, Marlin 1881, Maynard 1873, Peabody/Martini 1875, Whitney 1871, Phoenix/Eli Whitney 1874, Frank Wesson 1870, Bullard 1883/84, Stevens 1886.

A fine piece as I'm in agreement with the others, like Steve said, it goes well with you're collection, as the missing link.

Bill is also correct as s short story of the hunt, and the picture of the rifle deserves to be in the Collector. 

Tony

steve004 said

Anthony said
Thanks for making us aware Steve!
One has to think and imagine that J.M.B. got most of his design and thinking, in the late 1870's, from his mastermind head, from the Sharps rifle's of the day along with it's falling block action, that we are now familiar with in the Winchester M-1885. 
Looks like another book for the library.
Tony
  

Tony -
As much respect and admiration I have for JMB, he wasn't the only genius firearms inventor and designer to come along.  And surely as you suggest, there would have been influence from others that came before him as well as operating when he was.  
  

Steve,

You're absolutely correct in you're statement. IMO! You've more than demonstrated that in a very good way here and on site's we have shared. Without naming them, there's more than one, it's just that to me and a few others, J.M.B. is one of the more well known and publicized that we're familiar with as you're well aware of. Being that he had the most influence with the History of Winchester, in the early days of well known inventions etc.......He's so known for the M-1885 S.S. rifle, as it was his first patent, without naming the rest. Also as you're aware of, before Oliver Winchester passed in 1880, he made it a well known practice to the ones around him to try to buy out the competition, as he was also successful in doing.

It's just that J.M.B.'s designs in several patents after his first one of the 128 patents, sure helped the development along as far as the Black powder transition to the smokeless powder was concerned. The well known companies of Marlin and Savage sure did their part in contributing to name a couple. Don't know if Winchester ever made them any offers to be bought out and consumed. 

Tony

Unlike my small gun collection,  my library always has room to grow. A good collector volume - well researched, written by an expert with a scholarly hand but with a flair for entertaining the reader and maintaining his interest while teaching him -- will never cost less than the original publication price.  Want a nice copy of Herb's To the Dreams of Youth? You should have bought it when it came out. How about Schwing's two-volume work on the Winchester slide actions?  

Before any beginning collector starts throwing money at the gun show wolf packs, let him gird himself by studying what he proposes to buy. Law and Medicine both teach that preparation is even more important than learned skills.  Thorough and exhaustive preparation makes the dull practitioner smart, the smart practitioner brilliant, and the brilliant practitioner steady.  The collector should adopt this philosophy.  Knowing the questions is more important than knowing the answers. 

Having spent half my life in libraries,  I hold that a good collection of works on  particular Winchesters is vital but should be supplemented by books on Winchester's competitors and antecedents, and books on American history, for a complete understanding of WRA and its products. No manufacturer does business in a vacuum.

After mud wrestling a Winchester 1907, if I were not at least a student of John Moses Browning, I would have cursed the memory of the much put-upon Thomas C. Johnson, thinking he was an idiot for concocting such a Rube Goldberg contraption.  But even a cursory review of the many patents granted Browning that protected his automatic shotgun -- the Auto-Five bristled with them like a porcupine-- is illuminating. Poor Johnson helped draft the claims and he was very good at it. And thorough. That he was later at all able to design any sort of automatic gun that wouldn't violate a Browning patent, is a tribute to his high design skills and ingenuity.  The Johnson blowback automatics are weird because they had to be. They do work. The little 03/63 is a jewel albeit ruinously costly to make. 

Studying the Auto-Five patents lets you see T. C. Johnson "in the round."

Anthony said
Thanks for making us aware Steve!
One has to think and imagine that J.M.B. got most of his design and thinking, in the late 1870's, from his mastermind head, from the Sharps rifle's of the day along with it's falling block action, that we are now familiar with in the Winchester M-1885. 
Looks like another book for the library.
Tony
  

Tony -

As much respect and admiration I have for JMB, he wasn't the only genius firearms inventor and designer to come along.  And surely as you suggest, there would have been influence from others that came before him as well as operating when he was.  

It is a story hard core collectors can relate to and beginners can learn from. It would really be a service to the membership. 

And you have to get that carbine blooded this Fall. The article needs a cover shot of you, your Downeast hunting garb, a fat spike buck for the table, and the carbine. Your fans expect nothing less. 

One has to think and imagine that J.M.B. got most of his design and thinking, in the late 1870's, from his mastermind head, from the Sharps rifle's of the day along with it's falling block action, that we are now familiar with in the Winchester M-1885. 

Looks like another book for the library.

Tony