Winchester Collector - Forum: The Winchester Collector Magazine.

Pete Hynard on FALL 2026: Pete gets it done!

Sun, 25 Oct 2026 17:12:25 +0000

Brad Dunbar said
Hi Guys
I'm glad to read that you like the magazines. The Fall issue was just mailed with the calendar this week. We like to have the online version available for members ahead of time. Thanks!

Yes, kudos all round, Brad. The magazine is the heart of the Association. You do a great job.

By the way, I found an error in the H.B. Dow ledger on the last page of that article. It listed the .22 WRF as having a 1:20 rate of twist.

That didn't seem right, so I ran a patch through my Model 1890 and checked the distance for one complete rotation. It was 1:14.

Next, I pulled a bullet and ran it through the Greenhill formula. The .22 WRF shoots a 45-grain bullet that's 0.487" long. Mine clock out at 1,401 f.p.s. According to George, it needs a 1:15 twist to be stabilized.

Interesting, eh?

Pete

oldcrankyyankee on FALL 2026: Pete gets it done!

Sat, 24 Oct 2026 17:24:59 +0000

Brad Dunbar said
Hi Guys
I'm glad to read that you like the magazines. The Fall issue was just mailed with the calendar this week. We like to have the online version available for members ahead of time. Thanks!

Oh God more drooling coming! Can't wait to see what members posted!!!!

TXGunNut on FALL 2026: Pete gets it done!

Sat, 24 Oct 2026 14:33:39 +0000

Brad Dunbar said
Hi Guys
I'm glad to read that you like the magazines. The Fall issue was just mailed with the calendar this week. We like to have the online version available for members ahead of time. Thanks!

Calendar? Now I'm really looking forward to finding that fat envelope in my PO Box!

Mike

Anthony #5411 on FALL 2026: Pete gets it done!

Sat, 24 Oct 2026 13:42:53 +0000

Brad,

That's a nice heads up, as walking to the mailbox, certainly will be a little more enthusiastic for me!

Tony

Brad Dunbar on FALL 2026: Pete gets it done!

Sat, 24 Oct 2026 13:28:07 +0000

Hi Guys

I'm glad to read that you like the magazines. The Fall issue was just mailed with the calendar this week. We like to have the online version available for members ahead of time. Thanks!

TXGunNut on FALL 2026: Pete gets it done!

Thu, 22 Oct 2026 22:43:30 +0000

Anthony #5411 said
Same here Mike, as I was also wondering when the hard copy was coming?
I'm sure it will be along soon!
The people who handle it do a great job!

Tony

They certainly do, Tony! That's why I look forward to every issue.

Mike

Anthony #5411 on FALL 2026: Pete gets it done!

Thu, 22 Oct 2026 15:59:41 +0000

Same here Mike, as I was also wondering when the hard copy was coming?

I'm sure it will be along soon!

The people who handle it do a great job!

Tony

TXGunNut on FALL 2026: Pete gets it done!

Thu, 22 Oct 2026 15:42:29 +0000

Still waiting on my hard copy. I've been sneaking a few peeks at the online version. Maybe it will show up today! The PO where I have a box is better than the one where I live but both have issues with putting stuff in the correct box-if someone else doesn't misplace it.

Mike

Zebulon on FALL 2026: Pete gets it done!

Thu, 15 Oct 2026 19:51:05 +0000

When I can get to it, I've got two new-to-me rifles for the 250-3000 cartridge, both Savage 99s, an EG with 1:14 barrel and a second generation A with a 1:10 barrel.

Using one bullet-manufacturer's online engine, I've been plugging the dimensions of various 85-90 grain spitzers into the formula and have been surprised at how few are found to have good predicted stability at achievable velocities with the slower twist barrel.

Bert H. on FALL 2026: Pete gets it done!

Thu, 15 Oct 2026 16:50:37 +0000

Pete,

I think your theory has merit. As the velocity reaches maximum levels, the higher rate of bullet spin will (or does) negatively affect the accuracy. Slowing down the twist rate will most likely allow for better bullet stability at the extreme velocities, and it also reduce the barrel heat-up rate. I did notice that the barrel temp rose quite rapidly with the near maximum loads (I spaced my shots @ a 1 - 1.5 minute fire rate).

Bert

Pete Hynard on FALL 2026: Pete gets it done!

Thu, 15 Oct 2026 16:18:31 +0000

Bert H. said

Zebulon said
Pete settles the argument with a controlled experiment: bullets can be understabilized but not overstabillized.
See there?

I partially disagree... they can be pushed too fast while being overspun. I recently ran into that issue with some 110 grain bullet loads in 30-06. As I approached the max load of 58 grains of IMR 4064, the accuracy very grossly fell off (16" group @100 yards).
Bert

I hear what you’re saying, Bert.

When you think about it, the downside of over-spinning a bullet makes perfect sense. We used to spin tops when we were kids. You might have done that too. If you really reefed on the launcher, the top would initially wobble slightly, then “go to sleep” before slowing down and tipping over. Presumably, that initial wobble was caused by over-stabilization. The tipping-over was caused by under-stabilization.

The article I wrote was meant to be in the context of the typical antique Winchester. I have two .25-20s with different twist rates, which is why I picked them for the test.

The load I used was an 85-grain plain-base cast bullet at 1,388 f.p.s. I’m going to try another test. I’m going to test a 65-grain GC bullet at 1,981 f.p.s. in the rifle with the 1:8 rate of twist. That's as fast as I can get it to spin. In the rifle with the 1:14 twist, this load gives a five-shot, 100-yard group of 3 inches. I wonder how it will do in the rifle with the 1:8 twist?

I ran the 65-grain bullet through the Greenhill formula. The Greenhill formula predicts the optimum twist for this bullet to be 1:17. That's only slightly slower than the calculated rate of 1:15 for the 85-grain bullet. I think Steve was right. I think it will shoot OK too.

The fact that most rifles will shoot a range of bullet weights well from a barrel with a fixed-rate twist suggests that they’re not all that sensitive to twist. It’s only when the rate of spin falls below a certain threshold does the top tip over. Maybe George Greenhill should have worked on a formula for the under-stabilization threshold too.

As for the effect that you described, that was with a .30-calibre, 110-grain bullet at maybe 3,500 f.p.s. Maybe that's like really reefing on the top launcher and getting a slight wobble. Maybe it will "go to sleep" when it begins to slow down.

Figuring that out will be a lot tougher than what I did.

Pete

Zebulon on FALL 2026: Pete gets it done!

Mon, 12 Oct 2026 13:31:23 +0000

Burt Humphrey said

dimrod said
Burt,
That’s a marvelous model 1873. Is it chambered in 44 WCF?
Mark in Nome

Mark - yes it is

I will never own such a fine original 1873 Deluxe sporting rifle. Yours wears the best American stump Walnut I've seen in a long while.

Here is its pale shadow. Thankfully in 44 Winchester. I don't think we have any Muskoxen in Texas but it's hard to know for sure.

dimrod on FALL 2026: Pete gets it done!

Mon, 12 Oct 2026 07:00:46 +0000

Burt Humphrey said

Burt Humphrey said

dimrod said
Burt,
That’s a marvelous model 1873. Is it chambered in 44 WCF?
Mark in Nome


Mark - yes it is


Mark - I have had that 1873 for 40 years. It is a little too nice to send to Norton Sound on a hunting trip with you!

Oh you say that! That rifle would be perfect for taking a muskox. I can generally see them from my house when I’m ready to harvest one. It’s a very low impact hunt where she wouldn’t even get a scratch. I have another subsistence tag for this season….

Burt Humphrey on FALL 2026: Pete gets it done!

Mon, 12 Oct 2026 06:39:32 +0000

Burt Humphrey said

dimrod said
Burt,
That’s a marvelous model 1873. Is it chambered in 44 WCF?
Mark in Nome

Mark - yes it is

Mark - I have had that 1873 for 40 years. It is a little too nice to send to Norton Sound on a hunting trip with you!

Burt Humphrey on FALL 2026: Pete gets it done!

Mon, 12 Oct 2026 06:27:41 +0000

dimrod said
Burt,
That’s a marvelous model 1873. Is it chambered in 44 WCF?
Mark in Nome

Mark - yes it is