Jon

I can now vouch for removing the barrel nut with a Knipex channel lock, provided the jaws are padded. The one I used has installable polymer jaw inserts that are more squishy than I'd like for really beefing down on a pipe joint. It would slip before I could get more than a quarter turn of the barrel nut but didn't harm the finish. 

I'm going to re-measure the gap after a range session with the gun, to see if there's been any change. I've got some reloading to do of another caliber before an upcoming range session, so I'm going to put off any gunsmithing of the 07 for at least a week. I probably need to see how you fare with the job when you get parts in hand. 

One other question - what do think the buffer washer is made of? The GPC one I've just taken out of its plastic seal doesn't feel metallic at all. I've had it since 2005 and pretty sure its factory new old stock. 

Using the measurement of interior height furnished by Midwest Crisis as close enough for my gun, Buffer cup height is assumed to be .360.  By measuring a new old stock factory original buffer and buffer washer, I get buffer thickness = .320 and washer counterbore = .100.  

By my calculations, the gap between the bottom of the outer diameter of the washer, and the rim of the buffer cup,

using a new buffer and washer, should be = .060.  My gap with existing buffer and washer installed is actually a measured .035.  

Using the formulae in the attachment, the calculated remaining thickness of my buffer is .295, which is 92% of a new one. 

The .O35 measured gap in my gun is 58% of the calculated .060 gap with a new buffer and new washer. EDIT: this ratio fails to consider the presence of the constant 0.10 thickness of the washer counterbore. To relate the effect of only buffer thickness to the size of the gap, we must remove the effect on the gap due to the presence of the 0.10, thus: 

A. New buffer thickness .320 + washer counterbore thickness .100 = .420;

B. Calculated installed buffer thickness .295 + washer counterbore thickness .100 = .395; 

The ratio B:A is .395:420 = .94

If we measure a gap of .035,  then solve for buffer thickness:  .320 x .94 = .300.

Which is close enough to .295 to be useful in the real World of measuring gaps with feeler gauges and calculating an implied, permanent buffer compression.  I don't know how to account for momentary buffer compression, so I don't know how much buffer thickness will avoid peening metal.  I suspect that anyone in New Haven who did know has since Departed. 

Advise if I need to repeat high school algebra. Resist adding images of prunes.  

Mike

After I measure the thickness of the new buffer, i can calculate how wide the gap should be with it installed. Measuring the existing gap should give me an estimate of what's left. 

I watched the same two videos again and one of them showed the gap with a new buffer installed -- it didn't look much different than what mine looks like now. 

All in all, it looks like a Rube Goldberg design for mounting a buffer. I wonder how much of the design was because of the Browning patents. 

Zebulon said
What I'm trying to do is determine whether I can take the 07 to the range and fire twenty rounds this weekend before tackling buffer replscement.  If I can find my thickness gauge set and measure the visible gap, that should tell me indirectly  how much buffer is left. I presume the washer's counter is in contact with the upper face of the buffer and the larger diameter of the washer is being held off the rim of the buffer housing by the remaining thickness of the buffer. 
The unanswered question is how much gap is necessary to keep steel off steel on the recoil stroke? 
I take it from your measurements that the upper surface of the compressed buffer was .600 below the rim of the cup.  The counterbore of the washer being only .097 thick, it could not reach far enough down to contact the buffer before the larger diameter of the washer interfered with the rim of the cup. Ergo, there was .504 airspace between the washer and the buffer, which meant the buffer received none of the transmitted force. The cup and connected bolt extension absorbed the entire blow. 
  

Yes you are correct. But it’s .060.  If you know the length of a factory buffer, then you can determine how much you have left and apply a % of life.  It doesn’t answer your question of how much is needed to keep the washer from hitting the socket.  Looking at the condition of my rifle, I would say you’ll be fine.  Hard telling how many rounds mine saw with no buffer.  If you have 25% of your buffer left.  I’d think you’ll be ok for 20 rounds.  

The unanswered question is how much gap is necessary to keep steel off steel on the recoil stroke? 

I take it from your measurements that the upper surface of the compressed buffer was .600. 0.060 below the rim of the cup.  The counterbore of the washer being only .097 thick, it could not reach far enough down to contact the buffer before the larger diameter of the washer interfered with the rim of the cup. Ergo, there was .504 airspace between the washer and the buffer, which meant the buffer received none of the transmitted force. The cup and connected bolt extension absorbed the entire blow. 

the thickness of the buffer washer is only the smaller radius that fits into the buffer socket.  Not the whole thing.  

In your opinion, is the presently installed buffer still thick and functional enough to permit firing 20 rounds of standard velocity ammunition without battering or peening the steel parts? 

You'll surely get your reward in Heaven for helping me. if you're right.....

Nice score on both rifles, I can't imagine having one and being able to pass on the other. I like the story idea, would like to hear more about them. We all have different likes, this collector hobby would be a boring mess if we all liked the same stuff. Enjoy, that's the whole point!

Mike

win4575 said
I'm not sure which side of the fence I'm on.  Sounds like most politicians, doesn't it?  I have collected Winchesters for 60 plus years.  I've never cared for restored guns, simply because until the past 25 years or so, no one knew how to restore a gun to it's factory condition.  Honestly, I have seen very few representations of factory quality, knowing full well some of these guys are very good, but NOT correct.  We all know, nothing will replace a FACTORY original fit and finish.  Having said that, I bought my very first restored gun.  I bought this rifle for two reasons, (1) it was in the collection of a dear friend and (2) it is rare.  This gun letters as an 1886, 26" "EXTRA HEAVY" barrel, full mag, with set trigger.  All other features are standard.  I knew it was a Turnbull gun, simply by the case color.  I email them with the serial number and find that this gun was restored by them in 2005.  They actually gave an accurate rundown on the restoration.  Wood, mag tube, mag tube retaining band and mag tube cap were items they replaced.  They made specific mention that the barrel HAD NOT been replaced during the restoration.  This is very clear, as the bore is well worn, having hundreds of rounds fired through it.  I am sure however, that it will still shoot accurately with some fancy reloading.  This is an early gun, shipped in 1888, so I doubt it was used to any extent if at all, for buffalo.  It was not ordered with target sights, so long range shooting was probably not what this gun was intended for.  The only thing I can think of is maybe a seal gun on the coast.  At any rate, it is a dandy, but restored.  The previous owner had it restored back in 2005, simply to save it from the parts bin.
  

Pictures??