antler1 said

Bert H. said

antler1 said
What years were Browning brothers stamping any model of Winchester that were sold thru their shop?
  

Late 1885 through at least 1906.
Bert
  

This is one of the reasons I asked. It seems late in production to have a legit Browning Bros stamp.
https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/4098/26/browning-bros-marked-winchester-model-1894-rifle
  

Pat,

The marking on that rifle is legit, but based on the position of the Browning marking, it was not one of the Patent payment guns shipped directly to Browning.  Instead, it is a rifle that was brought to Ogden to be serviced by Browning after it was originally shipped out west.  The serial number "348938" identifies it as an April 1907 production rifle.

Bert

Chuck said

Bert H. said

 About 15-years ago there was a display of (11) Browning Single Shot rifles at the annual WACA show in Cody.
I have photos in my research files for 20 of the Browning rifles, lowest serial number is 88 and the highest is 536.
Bert
  

In 1997 when the Cody show was in the gymnasium there was a display of the Browning single shots.  Most I've ever seen in one place.
Bert, do you know how many were made?  I have seen a document that says no more than 600?
  

To the best of my knowledge, none have been verified with a serial number greater than 536.  I suspect that the total number that were made was something very close to 550.

That display in 1997 was the same collector that set up his display at the Cody show just a few years later.  I spent more than 4-hours at the WACA show display talking to the fellow.  Unfortunately, I believe that he has since passed away.

Bert

Anthony said
This is a picture of Browning's S.S. rifle #196, that is seen on the Browning Historic Timeline page. 
 
https://www.browning.com/support/historic-timeline.html
 
Tony
  

Are there any additional pictures of #196?  The link you provided has just the single picture.

These are the markings on S/N 135. Note that both the Breech Block and the barrel have the Browning stamped marking;

This is S/N 212

Both of these rifles were chambered for the 45-70 Government

Bert

Bert H. said

 About 15-years ago there was a display of (11) Browning Single Shot rifles at the annual WACA show in Cody.
I have photos in my research files for 20 of the Browning rifles, lowest serial number is 88 and the highest is 536.
Bert
  

In 1997 when the Cody show was in the gymnasium there was a display of the Browning single shots.  Most I've ever seen in one place.

Bert, do you know how many were made?  I have seen a document that says no more than 600?

antler1 said

Bert H. said

antler1 said
What years were Browning brothers stamping any model of Winchester that were sold thru their shop?
  

Late 1885 through at least 1906.
Bert
  

This is one of the reasons I asked. It seems late in production to have a legit Browning Bros stamp.
https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/4098/26/browning-bros-marked-winchester-model-1894-rifle
  

The rifle in question that you mention being mfg. in 1907, is very close to the end that Bert has mentioned. (1885-1906) Here's a picture of the stamps that have been found in regards to the Browning Brothers stamp variants, from Madis Book. I tried to use the smallest image and the least bytes but it still turned sideways. Anyway the 5 th stamp down from the top looks like the one on the 1907 mfg. M-1894. 

I'm not saying that the stamp is original or it's correct, as there's not a lot of printed material or information on these as far as I know. Bert can possibly add more. We have to remember that these we're applied by hand and maybe individually, as the beginning of the Browning stamp is double struck and hard to read. I'm not sure if stamps are in the Browning museum in Ogden, that could be verified as I've never been there. 

My guess is this could be correct. Just a guess!

Tony

Bert H. said

antler1 said
What years were Browning brothers stamping any model of Winchester that were sold thru their shop?
  

Late 1885 through at least 1906.
Bert
  

This is one of the reasons I asked. It seems late in production to have a legit Browning Bros stamp.

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/4098/26/browning-bros-marked-winchester-model-1894-rifle

https://www.browning.com/support/historic-timeline.html

Tony

I am in full agreement in all that you're saying, and like the points that you made. With you're research on the M-1885, I am sure that you have come across more information than many of us if not all on the Browning Brothers invention of the S.S. rifle. 

I do remember mention of a Browning Brothers S.S. rifle display at Cody years ago, or at least read about it. I don't remember who set up the display or who had it.

This one is serial number #196, and not marked anywhere with the Browning Brothers stamp, of any example. .50 Caliber, 30 inch, Oct. barrel, that measured 1 3/16 across the muzzle. Well used as many were. 

Tony

TXGunNut said
Looking at that stamp I wonder if it passed through the Browning Brothers' shop more than once. 
 
Mike
  

Doubtful.  The stamped markings on it are correct for a late 1882 or early 1883 Browning Single Shot rifle.  The markings on it are identical to those on serial number 536.

Bert

antler1 said
What years were Browning brothers stamping any model of Winchester that were sold thru their shop?
  

Late 1885 through at least 1906.

Bert

Anthony said
Kirk,
That's a very nice find. Not all of the Single Shots had the Browning Brothers identification on them, even though they made and used more than one stamp, with different variations on them. These rifles we're made by hand as was the tooling to do so. 
The, what looks like an,"O", stamp on the left sided flat, under the patent date, is interesting to me. As is also, what looks like, "530",(serial #530) on the top flat in front of the receiver. We aren't accustomed to seeing the serial number here! The amount of bluing on the barrel, is also pretty amazing to see. 
As we know there's not a lot of information out there on these, as one of the only 600 manufactured original S. S. rifles. The Borchardt style lever, and as you mentioned, the "double set", triggers, and the cleaning rod underneath, are sure scarce.
This example has a larger metal style crescent butt, for the times when shooters we're smaller in stature.
The "Thick Side " round top receiver, is always a very attractive looking feature to me on these. 
It was a very well known fact back in the day, that a heavy barrel rifle shot better! Hence the heavy barrel. It was not uncommon for these to weigh 16 pounds or more.
It's well known and documented in Campbell's books that the wrist area was changed by Winchester with the degree of the wood to metal fit, bu changing the angle on the metal receiver, and also strengthening the, "S", shaped style point of contact. Amongst other changes that Winchester made to the M-1885 S.S.
It's not well known what rear sights we're used on these, as the "Fruend", sight was also used on some of these and are characteristically longer than what most of us are accustomed to, as far as the Winchester rear rifle sights the we see. 
With less than 100 known to exist, approximately 60 are documented today to be in existence, or at least found.
Thanks for sharing,
Tony
  

Tony,

I have personally seen and handled 25+ original Browning Single Shot rifles, and all of them were marked with the Browning Brothers marking (not always in the same location or the exact same marking).  Further, all of them had a serial number, but again, not stamped in the exact same location.  About 15-years ago there was a display of (11) Browning Single Shot rifles at the annual WACA show in Cody.

I have photos in my research files for 20 of the Browning rifles, lowest serial number is 88 and the highest is 536.

Bert

I'm planning to be there with another WACA/OGCA member who's going to put me up (or put up with me) for the visit...  Sadly I'll be broke (as usual), but I look forward to seeing many of the WACA members who are also active in OGCA...

See Ya'

Lou

TXGunNut said
Looking at that stamp I wonder if it passed through the Browning Brothers' shop more than once. Very nice rifle, shoots great for nearly 150 years old!
 
Mike
  

I wouldn't necessarily say "It passed through", but rather having been actually "made at" the Browning Shop in Utah makes it even more special than any Winchester with a Browning Bros. stamp. It was hand made by one or more of the Browning Brothers.

Shrapnel said
It is what brought Thomas Bennet out to Ogden, Utah to the Browning Brothers shop to secure the rights to produce the rifle, which would become the Winchester Model 1885.
 

Technically what brought out V.P. T.G. Bennet to Utah was to settle a dispute over a Reloading Tool patent infringement over (W..R.A.Co.) Superintendent V.A. King's 1880 Reloading Tool and Browning's Reloading Tool. They settled on an agreement to allow Browning Brothers to finish producing 125 Sets of Tools that Browning had on hand. While settling this agreement over the reloading tool another deal was struck between Winchester & Browning over the Single Shot and other designs. That lead to a long term relationship with Browning and Winchester until the final falling out between them.

Sincerely,

Maverick