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        <title>Winchester Collector - Forum: General Discussions &#038; Questions</title>
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                    <title>Zebulon on out of bounds?</title>
                    <link>https://winchestercollector.org/forum/general-discussions-questions/out-of-bounds/#p178320</link>
                    <category>General Discussions &#038; Questions</category>
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					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>Those are indeed for a Smith 39.  The model was introduced in the mid-Fifties about the same time Colt's Commander started being chambered for the 9mm Parabellum. NATO was pushing for the nine to become the standard sidearm and subgun cartridge and Smith and Colt each fielded a proposed American officer's pistol.  The Army conducted a trial of sorts but the idea went nowhere. </p>
<p>The Model 39 and its hi-cap sibling Model 59 rocked along with modest civilian sales until Vietnam. In the late Fifties and through all of the Sixties I never saw one in a store because they were in demand by troops headed for Southeast Asia. Nine millimeter was available at American bases because other NATO allies did provide some troops. I'm told it was provided in pre-loaded Browning P-35:magazines, just as 45 ball came in preloaded 1911 magazines. A friend who served as a Junior artillery officer said the P-35:was popular with gun crews, who were very busy but feared being overrun. </p>
<p>I took a like-new and in-the-box Model 39 as a fee about 1970 and found it innovative, reliable, accurate, and well-made but hard to feed -- it liked ball and not much else. I traded it straight across for  a brand new Browning 22 automatic (the little takedown rifle) and a Hartmann-style factory hard case to go with it. That pistol was still hard to find and the dealer wanted it. </p>
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					                    <pubDate>Sat, 18 Apr 2026 01:50:23 +0000</pubDate>
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                    <title>TXGunNut on out of bounds?</title>
                    <link>https://winchestercollector.org/forum/general-discussions-questions/out-of-bounds/#p178319</link>
                    <category>General Discussions &#038; Questions</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://winchestercollector.org/forum/general-discussions-questions/out-of-bounds/#p178319</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>Pretty sure Steve is right, some of the other S&#038;W single stack autos including Performance Center pistols had very similar grips. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Mike</p>
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					                    <pubDate>Sat, 18 Apr 2026 01:37:33 +0000</pubDate>
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                    <title>Tony Ford on Anyone ever seen one of these table mats?</title>
                    <link>https://winchestercollector.org/forum/general-discussions-questions/anyone-ever-seen-one-of-these-table-mats/#p178318</link>
                    <category>General Discussions &#038; Questions</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://winchestercollector.org/forum/general-discussions-questions/anyone-ever-seen-one-of-these-table-mats/#p178318</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>32WS</p>
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					                    <pubDate>Sat, 18 Apr 2026 01:37:28 +0000</pubDate>
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                    <title>Deg on out of bounds?</title>
                    <link>https://winchestercollector.org/forum/general-discussions-questions/out-of-bounds/#p178317</link>
                    <category>General Discussions &#038; Questions</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://winchestercollector.org/forum/general-discussions-questions/out-of-bounds/#p178317</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">
<p><strong>Chuck said </strong><br />
1911 and 1911 A 1 grips are similar to these 1911 grips in shape.<br />
  </p>
</blockquote>
<p>That is what I was thinking but I am certain Steve has it nailed. I am going to find someone who has a 39 and check it out. </p>
]]></description>
					                    <pubDate>Sat, 18 Apr 2026 00:11:11 +0000</pubDate>
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                    <title>Chuck on out of bounds?</title>
                    <link>https://winchestercollector.org/forum/general-discussions-questions/out-of-bounds/#p178306</link>
                    <category>General Discussions &#038; Questions</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://winchestercollector.org/forum/general-discussions-questions/out-of-bounds/#p178306</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p><img data-upload="1" data-width="5184" data-height="3456" title="Colt-1911-L.JPG" alt="Colt-1911-L.JPG" src="https://winchestercollector.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-image-uploads/cwachter/2026/04/Colt-1911-L.JPG" />1911 and 1911 A 1 grips are similar to these 1911 grips in shape.</p>
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					                    <pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2026 20:33:17 +0000</pubDate>
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                    <title>Deg on out of bounds?</title>
                    <link>https://winchestercollector.org/forum/general-discussions-questions/out-of-bounds/#p178299</link>
                    <category>General Discussions &#038; Questions</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://winchestercollector.org/forum/general-discussions-questions/out-of-bounds/#p178299</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">
<p><strong>steve004 said </strong><br />
I don't know why as I'm not much of a S&#038;W guy - but my immediate reaction was Model 39.<br />
<a href="https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1152602106" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1152602106</a><br />
  </p>
</blockquote>
<p>you know - you are very likely correct! </p>
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					                    <pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2026 19:00:10 +0000</pubDate>
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                    <title>steve004 on out of bounds?</title>
                    <link>https://winchestercollector.org/forum/general-discussions-questions/out-of-bounds/#p178298</link>
                    <category>General Discussions &#038; Questions</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://winchestercollector.org/forum/general-discussions-questions/out-of-bounds/#p178298</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>I don't know why as I'm not much of a S&#038;W guy - but my immediate reaction was Model 39.</p>
<p><a href="https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1152602106" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1152602106</a></p>
]]></description>
					                    <pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2026 18:27:05 +0000</pubDate>
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                    <title>Deg on out of bounds?</title>
                    <link>https://winchestercollector.org/forum/general-discussions-questions/out-of-bounds/#p178296</link>
                    <category>General Discussions &#038; Questions</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://winchestercollector.org/forum/general-discussions-questions/out-of-bounds/#p178296</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>I am pretty confident these go to a 1911 but I cannot seem to find any with the top of the cutting on the left grip (right in pictures) and I cannot find any information with the checkering pattern like this. Any ideas? </p>
<p><img data-upload="1" data-width="480" data-height="640" title="1a.jpg" alt="1a.jpg" src="https://winchestercollector.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-image-uploads/deg/2026/04/1a.jpg" /><img data-upload="1" data-width="480" data-height="640" title="1b.jpg" alt="1b.jpg" src="https://winchestercollector.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-image-uploads/deg/2026/04/1b.jpg" /></p>
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					                    <pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2026 17:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
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                    <title>mrcvs on out of bounds?</title>
                    <link>https://winchestercollector.org/forum/general-discussions-questions/out-of-bounds/#p178294</link>
                    <category>General Discussions &#038; Questions</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://winchestercollector.org/forum/general-discussions-questions/out-of-bounds/#p178294</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote">
<p><strong>Deg said </strong><br />
Is it safe to ask a S&#038;W question?<br />
  </p>
</blockquote>
<p>Yes, go for it!</p>
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					                    <pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2026 17:34:17 +0000</pubDate>
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                    <title>Deg on out of bounds?</title>
                    <link>https://winchestercollector.org/forum/general-discussions-questions/out-of-bounds/#p178293</link>
                    <category>General Discussions &#038; Questions</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://winchestercollector.org/forum/general-discussions-questions/out-of-bounds/#p178293</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>Is it safe to ask a S&#038;W question?</p>
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					                    <pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2026 17:20:01 +0000</pubDate>
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                    <title>steve004 on Anyone ever seen one of these table mats?</title>
                    <link>https://winchestercollector.org/forum/general-discussions-questions/anyone-ever-seen-one-of-these-table-mats/#p178289</link>
                    <category>General Discussions &#038; Questions</category>
                    <guid isPermaLink="true">https://winchestercollector.org/forum/general-discussions-questions/anyone-ever-seen-one-of-these-table-mats/#p178289</guid>
					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>Not to bash commemoratives but I would rather have that vintage SRC laying on the mat <img class="spSmiley" style="margin:0" title="Cool" alt="Cool" src="https://winchestercollector.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-smileys/sf-cool.gif" /></p>
<p>What chambering?</p>
]]></description>
					                    <pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2026 15:56:25 +0000</pubDate>
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                    <title>TXGunNut on Duplicate Model numbers</title>
                    <link>https://winchestercollector.org/forum/general-discussions-questions/duplicate-model-numbers/#p178278</link>
                    <category>General Discussions &#038; Questions</category>
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					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>I suppose that sort of explains the Model 1887 shotgun and Model 87 Winder Musket. Sort of. </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Mike</p>
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					                    <pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2026 23:46:54 +0000</pubDate>
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                    <title>Nevada Paul on Duplicate Model numbers</title>
                    <link>https://winchestercollector.org/forum/general-discussions-questions/duplicate-model-numbers/#p178261</link>
                    <category>General Discussions &#038; Questions</category>
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					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>Excellent and detailed explanation, Buck. Thank you!</p>
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					                    <pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2026 14:58:39 +0000</pubDate>
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                    <title>Buck1967 on Duplicate Model numbers</title>
                    <link>https://winchestercollector.org/forum/general-discussions-questions/duplicate-model-numbers/#p178260</link>
                    <category>General Discussions &#038; Questions</category>
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					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>I asked Grok and good to know when they take over even they will be citing Bert 😀 see below…</p>
<p>There is no known “official” statement from Winchester (or its later corporate owners) explaining the reuse. Extensive searches of Winchester histories, factory records summaries, collector publications, and the company’s own timeline/FAQ turn up nothing—no memos, catalogs, or executive comments addressing it.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></p>
<p>The best (and only substantive) explanation comes from knowledgeable Winchester collectors and historians, particularly those associated with the Winchester Arms Collectors Association (WACA). In a dedicated discussion on this forum, WACA Historian Bert H. addressed the Model 59 pair directly and offered the same logic that applies to the Model 55s:</p>
<p>“I suspect that somebody at Winchester forgot about the Model 59 .22 rim fire rifle. It was developed in 1929, and only marketed for one year (1930). It was discontinued after just 9,293 were manufactured. The Model 59 Semi-auto shotgun arrived on the scene 20-years later in 1959, which leads me to believe that whomever it was that assigned the model designation to it, was unaware of the Model 59 rifle from 20-years earlier. Of course, this is just my guess.”<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></p>
<p>The same reasoning fits the Model 55s perfectly: the lever-action version was discontinued in the early 1930s, and the .22 version appeared ~25–30 years later. Both early models were relatively low-volume or short-lived (especially the Depression-era .22s), so by the late 1950s/early 1960s—when Winchester was rapidly introducing new budget .22s and shotguns under new corporate ownership (Olin)—the prior uses of those numbers had faded from institutional memory.</p>
<p>Why not just pick a new number? Model numbers at Winchester were primarily internal marketing/designation tools rather than strictly controlled, trademarked, or sequentially “reserved” identifiers. There was no production overlap, no parts interchangeability issues at the time, and no consumer confusion in the marketplace because the guns were sold decades apart in completely different categories (centerfire rifle vs. rimfire plinker; rimfire rifle vs. shotgun). Winchester was churning out new models rapidly in the post-WWII era, and a simple two-digit numbering system made reuse administratively convenient. The company almost certainly never imagined that collectors decades later would be cross-referencing old catalogs and serial lists.</p>
<p>In short, it was an unintentional oversight driven by time gaps, low production of the originals, and a lack of any formal “model number registry.” It has created minor confusion for modern collectors and appraisers (you always have to specify “lever 55” or “.22 55,” for example), but it wasn’t a problem for Winchester at the time. No evidence suggests it was done deliberately for any strategic or marketing reason.</p>
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					                    <pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2026 14:54:30 +0000</pubDate>
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                    <title>Nevada Paul on Duplicate Model numbers</title>
                    <link>https://winchestercollector.org/forum/general-discussions-questions/duplicate-model-numbers/#p178259</link>
                    <category>General Discussions &#038; Questions</category>
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					                        <description><![CDATA[<p>In at least two instances of which I'm aware (Models 55 and 59), Winchester made two very different firearms with the same 'Model Number'.</p>
<p>Why did they do this?  Winchester must have been aware that this would lead to some level of confusion for all involved, so why not create a new model number?</p>
<p>Has there ever been any sort of 'official' statement from Winchester as to why they chose to duplicate a model number?  </p>
<p>What is the best explanation for why this was done?</p>
<p>Paul</p>
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					                    <pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2026 13:38:07 +0000</pubDate>
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