Anthony said

Steven Gabrielli said
Ian is on point.
https://www.forgottenweapons.com/m14-americas-worst-service-rifle-what-went-wrong/
  

Steve,
As you're well aware of, he usually is!
Good find!
Tony
  

Sorry, couldn't disagree more. I realize I'm late to the commenting game here, but his video is highly misleading and is presented as if no one is aware that the M14 remained in Navy service long after it lost favor in within "Big Army" and Marine Corps (it may still be in use on ships today) and, in fact, was retained in a modernized form by the SEALs, who loved it (hell, it is very likely still in service with them). It also remained in service with Army Rangers for decades afterward, too. (I carried a selective fire M14 in Ranger school in the 1980s, where it gave excellent service (we automatic riflemen always opened up before the machine gunners could, always. Extremely reliable, too). Further, both the Army and Marines relied heavily on two modernized variants of the M14 in Afghanistan: The Army's Enhanced Battle Rifle (EBR)--two per rifle squad-- and the Marines' Enhanced Marksman's Rifle (EMR)--issued at the platoon level. It was estimated that the Army and Marines had approximately 10,000 modernized M14s in service in the 2010s (perhaps still today, I don't know). Max effective range of these modernized M14s was 800 meters, which is damn good. Further, the Army did not get rid of its Grease Guns (SMGs) until sometime in the late 1980s. Perhaps the last soldiers to employ them were army tankers and Cav scouts when the M1 tanks was fielded. They were replaced by M16s which sure as hell didn't fit in a tank (too damn long) like a short barreled Grease Gun!

Ian missed the boat on this one, IMHO.....

Bert, how did they enter the 22 center fire caliber in the 1885 ledgers?

Bob 

My initial thought on this was that it wasn't necessarily a mistake by Winchester , as we've seen in the past, and even recently, that Winchester's advertising publications of the time we're just that, and in many cases, a caliber, such as the .405 caliber and the .35 caliber for the model 1895 we're advertised, as in Winchesters plans, and seen a year previous as either experimental cartridges or calibers that we're produced by them. 

Like Bert said let's see what Bob has to say, but I also have thoughts on the advertising of the .22 C.F cartridge in the advertising, Bert showed us, and find it interesting, as I feel it was in their plans, but it didn't develop, as they had issues with their Take Down design, that they scrapped, after only 5 months of production in 1884,(July/1884 - January/1885) but continued they're production of the 73/22 for several years.

We know Winchesters Advertising department was second to none, as far as self promoting, as getting these catalogs out to their jobbers and or distributors was everything, back in the day. The .22 WCF, was first developed by Winchester in 1884. The .22 short was first developed by S&W, in 1857,(with a few others in between), which we know was purchased by Oliver Winchester. Stetson's patent of 1871, for the .22 short is well documented, and this being a short version, many of us are aware of this. Naturally there's a lot more to this as far as the history of the cartridges, but I'm trying to stay on point.

Tony

When is the .22 rimfire first mentioned in a catalog?  And while I'm at it, was it offered in .22 short, .22 long and .22 extra long (i.e. all mentioned in the catalog)?

I discovered something very odd while looking at my November 1885 Winchester catalog (No. 39) to answer a question that Chuck posed... and the answer is, No, it is not marked "No. 39" anywhere on or in the catalog.

Now, getting back to the reason I am posting this, I discovered that somebody at Winchester apparently thought that they were going to manufacture the Model 1873 lever-action repeaters for the .22 center fire (WCF) cartridge.  Below, I have included a scanned copy of pages 8, 9, and 13 that indicate that the Model 1873 was offered in the 22 center fire cartridge!

My question... did this really happen?

Bert

Anthony said

Bert H. said

Anthony said
Evidently working on another deal!!!
  

I most likely was pondering a deal... but that is nothing new!
  

There's no grass growing under you're feet my friend, I'm glad to see!
Tony
  

At my advancing age, I don't dare to stop moving for too long... if I do, the roots will most likely set in too deep and I will be forever stuck in place!

Bert

Cecil Sauer said
Bill,
Thanks a bunch for the explanation.
It all makes perfect sense now, knowing what you explained.
I am fine with the ties, but I can sure see cases where they would not be ideal.
I appreciate the kind response to my uneducated question!
Cecil
  

Cecil, do you think you'll make it down to Texas in the Fall?

TXGunNut said
I think gun show operators nationwide have taken notice of OGCA's misfortune and their thoughtful response. We can't depend on every gun show attendee to exercise good judgement and safe gun handling skills. I think gun shows are safer today because their operators took a hard look at their safety rules and made improvements as a result of the OGCA incident. Like it or not gun shows won't happen without insurance. If we're going to welcome the public to our shows we need to assume they know nothing about basic gun safety. Common sense isn't something we can depend on today.
 
Mike
  

Well said Mike!

Tony

Bert H. said

Anthony said
Evidently working on another deal!!!
  

I most likely was pondering a deal... but that is nothing new!
  

There's no grass growing under you're feet my friend, I'm glad to see!

Tony

Chuck said

TXGunNut said

Chuck said
In a way my wife bought my Henry.  I told her if she re did the recent re do of our kitchen I would buy a Henry. 
  

I have a feeling she came out waaaaaay ahead on that deal. Still a win-win in my book. 
 
 
Mike
  

You are right.  She spent way more than I did. 
  

About 30 years ago I worked for a guy who spent over $20,000 on a kitchen remodel but he and his wife went out for dinner every night, neither of them cooked. Never could figure that one out. 

Mike

Anthony said
Evidently working on another deal!!!
  

I most likely was pondering a deal... but that is nothing new!

TXGunNut said

Chuck said
In a way my wife bought my Henry.  I told her if she re did the recent re do of our kitchen I would buy a Henry. 
  

I have a feeling she came out waaaaaay ahead on that deal. Still a win-win in my book. 
 
 
Mike
  

You are right.  She spent way more than I did. 

Chuck said
In a way my wife bought my Henry.  I told her if she re did the recent re do of our kitchen I would buy a Henry. 
  

I have a feeling she came out waaaaaay ahead on that deal. Still a win-win in my book. 

Mike