Randy3590 said
I sent Venmo 1/2 of payment 
 
i have sent certified Ck if full amount to other WACA members without a problem and since this message was on WACA forms from M70hunter I assumed he was real 
I will now meet everyone in person even if that means flying across country or not buy anything
if you look at the first message it came M70hunter registered on here
  

Randy,

Rule #1...  Never send any form of electronic payment to an unknown "seller'.  That is a dead giveaway that it is a SCAM.  Unfortunately, the WACA website (forums) is routinely targeted by Scammers (just as thousands of other websites are targeted by the Scammers around the globe).

Rule #2... if the seller is not an active full WACA Member, proceed with caution!  Always engage in direct communication with a seller prior to sending any funds.  If a seller is not willing to talk with you (phone call), that too is a strong clue that you are dealing with a Scammer.

Bert

Randy3590 said
I sent Venmo 1/2 of payment 
 
i have sent certified Ck if full amount to other WACA members without a problem and since this message was on WACA forms from M70hunter I assumed he was real 
I will now meet everyone in person even if that means flying across country or not buy anything
if you look at the first message it came M70hunter registered on here
  

Sorry to hear this brother Randy! I would check out Guntab for future use. Anyone can sign up for it and it is an escrow system that holds the money and won’t release to the seller until tracking proves it was delivered and you confirm it is as represented or 3 days passes if you don’t respond. I love it as both a buyer and a seller. Works with cc or ach check. I hope you get your money back my friend! If you find him let us know if you need help hiding the body 😀 if I don’t hear otherwise I can vouch you were at church all day the day he disappeared so it couldn’t be you! 😳

i have sent certified Ck if full amount to other WACA members without a problem and since this message was on WACA forms from M70hunter I assumed he was real 

I will now meet everyone in person even if that means flying across country or not buy anything

if you look at the first message it came M70hunter registered on here

Per the WACA registration information, M70hunter is Keith Brouhard and his email is - keithbrouhard@gmail.com.

You did not mention what form of payment you sent to the alleged seller.

Bert

since I have had nothing but good people to work with from WACA I thought nothing of working with M70hunter I sent him money and he has been telling me he will send gun then always an excuse his email is

echosoul37@gmail.com

name is supposed to be Greg Schneller? 

paniolonaz said

Bert H. said

1873man said
I started to cross check the serials of the Winchester 44's to my survey to see if I get a hit on one I have info on. I had serial 28311 and its a rifle with a extra heavy 30" barrel. That does not sound like a gun you would issue unless you didn't have any ammo and used it to beat the enemy.  I have seen in the list low serial numbers that would fall into the first model 73's that say they are 38 and 32 calibers. I believe all the low serial number Winchesters in 44 are 92's
Bob
  

Bob,
I did some checking, and all of the low serial numbered 44's on the page you posted are indeed Model 1892 44 Caliber Carbines, and they are all on the same order number #7619.
Do you have copies of any additional pages with serial numbers and calibers?
Bert
  

Hey Bert
I'm pretty curious how you found this order number and are able to make these connections. I've been trying to find proof of the order for the rebel arms in 1894, but am having a hard time locating any definitive records. Sorry if this is a newbie question, but I have information like the city that the order was placed in, around what time of year, and the number of arms, just trying to get a receipt or some kind of proof of purchase. Let me know if you could point me in the right direction!
  

As Bob mentioned, it is a simple check in the factory ledger records (located at the Cody Firearms Museum research office).  With just a quick search, I found at least (75) model 1892 44 caliber carbines listed with the same order # 7619.  It will take a considerable amount of time to review all of the records to find exactly how many Model 1892s were sold to the CHG.

Bert

Bob

In 1875 the manufacture of Sharps rifles moved from Hartford to Bridgeport. In 1876 Old Reliable was added to the barrel. The 45 Cal is confusing depending upon what type of rifle it is. Long range target or sporting etc.

I appreciate it Chuck.

In the Frank Sellers, Sharps book, in the back he has a cartridge section ans a paragraph on each cartridge describing and explaining the cartridges that Sharps used in their rifles. He shows several early linen cartridges, and percussion cartridges and also talks about the paper patch cartridges, and all the way up to the famed "Big 50" cartridge,but no mention of the 50-3 1/4", or 50-140, cartridge,(in which great discussions are had on another post), in his 1988, (third printing), book which is pretty detailed.

The first .45 caliber cartridge he lists: .45 CALIBRE 2.1-INCH STRAIGHT (.45-70 GOVERNMENT) Listed as the .45 2 1/4 in 1875 and .45 2 1/12  inch  in 1876.

                          2 nd : .45  CALIBRE 2.4-INCH STRAIGHT Commonly called the 45-90 Models 1874, 1877, and 1878 Long Range rifles.

                          3 rd  : .45 CALIBRE 2.6-INCH STRAIGHT  The common load for this was the .45/100/550, Paper Patch.

                          4 th  : .45 CALIBRE 2-7/8 INCH STRAIGHT  This was the longest factory case loaded by the Sharps Rifle Company.

Tony           

Anthony said

Zebulon said
Tony,  That's a fine history lesson, for which my thanks.  
Before I forget,  I learned something from the new Collector's Guide.   Shiloh and others have written that "our" saddle rifle was never a named model  but rather a common reference to a Sharps buffalo rifle with a shortened barrel for scabbard carry. 
However, see page 130, excerpted below.
  

Bill,
Thanks for the kind words, as I surely tried to condense it down, as much as I could and hit some finer points.
Correct, the "saddle rifle", term is a collector terminology, like the different terminology that us Winchester collectors have for the so called, "Trapper". 
Does the book mention anything as to the, "OLD RELIABLE", years that was stamped into the barrel?
I spoke with Henry a little bit this morning, and was telling him to take a look at his friends rifle and collection, as in front of the front sight, "Freund", sometimes liked to put a skull and crossbones design that George was fond of, and rarely seen! When I asked him on the caliber he did say it was the .45 2 1/2 caliber. 
Pretty sure the .45-70- Government cartridge came about 1873, and the .45 2 1/2 was considered this cartridge with a 405 grain or 500 grain bullet. Sharps likely started using this cartridge in 1875 in their rifles.
Tony
  

In 1875 the manufacture of Sharps rifles moved from Hartford to Bridgeport.  In 1876 Old Reliable was added to the barrel.  The 45 Cal is confusing depending upon what type of rifle it is.  Long range target or sporting etc. 

Zebulon said
Tony,  That's a fine history lesson, for which my thanks.  
Before I forget,  I learned something from the new Collector's Guide.   Shiloh and others have written that "our" saddle rifle was never a named model  but rather a common reference to a Sharps buffalo rifle with a shortened barrel for scabbard carry. 
However, see page 130, excerpted below.
  

Bill,

Thanks for the kind words, as I surely tried to condense it down, as much as I could and hit some finer points.

Correct, the "saddle rifle", term is a collector terminology, like the different terminology that us Winchester collectors have for the so called, "Trapper". 

Does the book mention anything as to the, "OLD RELIABLE", years that was stamped into the barrel?

I spoke with Henry a little bit this morning, and was telling him to take a look at his friends rifle and collection, as in front of the front sight, "Freund", sometimes liked to put a skull and crossbones design that George was fond of, and rarely seen! When I asked him on the caliber he did say it was the .45 2 1/2 caliber. 

Pretty sure the .45-70- Government cartridge came about 1873, and the .45 2 1/2 was considered this cartridge with a 405 grain or 500 grain bullet. Sharps likely started using this cartridge in 1875 in their rifles.

Tony

Before I forget,  I learned something from the new Collector's Guide.   Shiloh and others have written that "our" saddle rifle was never a named model  but rather a common reference to a Sharps buffalo rifle with a shortened barrel for scabbard carry. 

However, see page 130, excerpted below.

Zebulon said
Henry,  What Tony said is the straight dope. Even I know the Freund logo means this rifle was more than likely a "real" buffalo rifle and carries with it all the romance of that Era. 
(Why do I have the feeling Henry's question has an echo of Sergent Bilko? "What is this game you call 'poker'?")
  

Poker, did you say? Aren't most Collectors poker players, so to speak??? 

Heck, we all like westerns, and have seen plenty of them, and in watching John Wayne in "The Shootist", he's haggling with "Mose", the stable hand taking care of his horse, and they get to haggling, over who's the best Haggler! That's how enjoyable it is to deal with an expert like Henry, a true gentleman in every sense of the word

The "Freund Brothers", we're well known of the Era, or time period, back when Winchester was doing they're thing along with the many others, plying trades. The Freund family originated in Prussia. Which the name means, Friend in English. Many of the family found themselves in Germany, and Frank Freund, emigrated to America, in New York, as many did, in 1857. After the Civil War, Frank Freund, a skilled craftsman, opened a gun shop in 1866 at Nebraska City along the Missouri River, in far Eastern Nebraska Territory. Frank took his brother George in and the "Freund Bros.", were off and running. Having shops in Nebraska, then moving to several different locations over the years, as the newly invention of travel back then known as the "Railroad", surely expanded the West, from back East.

With the "Freund Bros.', they had a shop in Cheyenne, Wyoming as Frank liked to refer to an Armory. They even had a shop in Salt Lake City, Utah, not far from Ogden, Utah, where the "Browning Brothers", set up shop.  

The brothers did so well, in those early years that Winchester had them on their list of nineteen, (19),"dealers and jobbers", of the famed Winchester model 1866.  In the Salt lake City directory and Business guide, in 1869, they ran an ad stating; 

"We are agents for the Winchester Patent Repeating Rifles and Carbines", for the Whole West"!

The "Freund", brothers did a lot of advertising in many papers of the West among others and had several locations over the years, and were well known for they're works. Denver, Colorado was another well known location, as was Durango, Colorado. They we're known to have a location in New Jersey as a move East in 1885, also. The reason Frank stated was to better manufacture his rifles. 

I'm sure that Frank Freund, along with his brother George, was aware of the relationship that the Browning Brothers had with Winchester, and this had some influence on them, way back then.

The west was, being Cheyenne Wyoming was always the place they liked to refer to as home. Both Frank and his brother George passed in 1910, and 1911, respectively in the West.

Tony