To covert from a rim fire cartridge to a center fire requires changing (or altering) the breech block and the firing pin, and changing the extractor.

Bert

Bert H. said
Bob,
Is this progressive change to the bolt associated with the addition of the "A" and "B" serial number suffix?
Bert
  

The change happened before the A showed up.

Bob

Springer2 said
Thank you all for the responses. I seen the rifle in a local ad along with some accessories and bought it. Using your serial number dater, it came up 1890. It just says 25-21 on the top of the barrel along with the Winchester markings further down barrel but no proof stamp. The bore looks very good, almost too good to be original. It looks like it shot some target as the front post sight is windage adjustable and the rear tang aperture is pretty small. Also this medium weight barrel was drilled and tapped for a target scope so I am guessing a target shooter had it. Looking forward to shooting it. 
  

If you can, send (or post) pictures of the caliber marking and the serial number. 

Bert - Win1885@msn.com

Springer2 said
Was the 1885 ever offered in 25-21? Not much information on the round so I am also looking for any load information. Thanks
  

Yes it was, but just (95) rifles (nearly all low-walls) were manufactured.  You can use the 25-20 S.S. load data.

Bert

1873man said
I have narrowed it down to 28,000 to 31,000. The problem without looking at the guns themselves is most online photos don't show the bolt face when selling a gun.
Bob
  

Bob,

That's pretty significant, in all reality. I agree, as it's pretty hard to determine from most of the pictures we see!

Bert H. said
Bob,
Is this progressive change to the bolt associated with the addition of the "A" and "B" serial number suffix?
Bert

Bert,

From Gordon's book, that most of us refer to unless Bob has found out different through his works and surveys,  he states that around serial number, 79,000-182,000, we can see an, "A", follow, and around 179,000, and up, a "B", will follow.

Tony

Is this progressive change to the bolt associated with the addition of the "A" and "B" serial number suffix?

Bert

Bob

Jeremy P said

Anthony said

1873man said
If I was going to make a tool, I would start with a pipe the right diameter and thickness and then mill or grind away whats not needed.
Bob
  

That's another good suggestion, applying equal pressure on both notches. That reminds me of an older tool made similar for working on an appliance like a washing machine. In the automotive industry the Spindle Nut wrench set is just that. And the opposite end is usually made for a 1/2 inch extension to fit into a ratchet.
 
Tony
  

...and also the homemade tool to breakdown a model 1911 widowmaker shotgun! 
  

Another good point Jeremy!

1873man said
Tony you started a good thread here. We all are learning something new. I looked through my parts box and found another style of bushing so I started to look through my guns and I found that the first models have the scallops and not a slot. Where you would need a special tool to remove it. The one with the slot is second model.  I don't know if there is a exact serial number that they changed  but its between 27,000 and 40,000 from a quick look through my gun safe. Tonight I will have more time to look.
Bob

  

Bob,

The information on the serial number proximity, 27,000-40,000, on the second model is very helpful and informative for collectors, as I know it is for me.

https://winchestercollector.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-image-uploads/1873man/2026/09/IMG_3574.JPEG

With the image that you provided, that really helps out a lot.

Tony

Maverick said

Roger Adam said
My "Winchester International Match Single-Shot Rifle of 1913" is pictured eight times in John Campbell's first volume book "The Winchester Single Shot", and once in his second volume book of the same name.
  

I would have to dig out my Maids books to check. But I'm pretty sure if not the rifle, the drawings for that custom style rifle are shown in either the "Winchester Book" or the "Winchester Hand Book". I don't know which specific serial number is shown. But I'll have to dig my copy out and find it.
Sincerely,
Maverick
  

Thanks for the response Maverick.  The International Match rifle that's pictured in the Madis book is serial number 102363.  It's also pictured in the James Grant book "More Single-Shot Rifles" published in 1959.  I was able to handle and inspect that rifle as part of the research that I did on my rifle.  It's currently in a private collection in Minnesota.