Welcome to WACA!  I have made many, many purchases through the CMP and your WACA membership card works exactly like your Garand Collectors Association card/letter.  You simply upload a copy of it with your purchase application just like you did with the GCA card/letter.  Everything else is the same.

I am also a member of both organizations (GCA and WACA).  We are looking forward to your participation in the Winchester forum here, especially the Winchester Military section.  We are all anxiously awaiting the CMP release of the M14's and Riot/Trench guns next year.

Best Regards,

Pretty new member of WACA and am pleased to learn that WACA is associated with the CMP in that purchases for surplus Garands etc can be done with WACA membership. I am wondering if anyone has experience using that benefit. I have been a member of the Garand Collectors Association for more than 20 years so am very familiar with how CMP sales works. GCA membership satisfied one of the requirements to purchase from CMP. What’s your experience using WACA membership?

Honest Jon

https://bid.poulinauctions.com/WINCHESTER-3RD-MODEL-1873-LEVER-ACTION-SRC_i59096556

Bob

Jim F in CT said

Bert H. said

Jim F in CT said
Some interesting facts I’ve learned . . . .
I was once invited to magazine writer, Ken Waters’ home in New Canaan, Ct., to discuss, or “hash over” some of his . . . .and my own . . . .findings about the Hornet cartridge.
I had found an excellent load for my 1939-era, M70, but Ken had found accuracy to be extremely “illusive” in his.
We both agreed that the Hercules #2400 powder was developed for use in the Hornet, but we had both found it to be “not quite right” in our loadings.
My most success was with the now unavailable Winchester #680 powder (now called #1680 by Accurate) . . . and Ken seemed to dislike the Hornet “in general”.
And just as an “FYI” . . .my rifle has a .223” groove diameter. (Just for giggles, I tried some “normal” .224” and actually noticed my groups enlarged . . .slightly!)
Anyhoo . . .This Hornet cartridge makes for some extremely cost-effective shooting!
  

I have been shooting (and reloading) the 22 Hornet for nearly 60-years now.  My dad got me started shooting an old converted Winchester Single Shot rifle that was rebarreled & chambered for 22 Hornet in the summer of 1966.  Because he was a dedicated reloader, we reloaded everything possible.  At that time, he was using 2400, but we also tried IMR 4227 as well.  As I gained my own experience (and acquired different rifles), I discovered that a load that will shoot well in one rifle very seldom ever shoots well in a different rifle... the 22 Hornet is a finicky cartridge, and it needs to be adjusted (tweaked) to each rifle. 
Having said that, in recent times, Hodgdon's Lil'Gun powder has been my "go to" for reloading the 22 Hornet and the 22 K-Hornet.  What I have discovered is that an absolute case full (light compression) is what works best.  I have also discovered that different case types (Remington, Winchester, Hornady, etc.) have different internal case capacities, and that mixing brass types should be avoided at all costs if you are seeking best accuracy.  Because the case types are different in their internal volume, it requires that a different amount powder be used to achieve best accuracy, and it can be as much as a 1.0 grain difference.  To give you an example, I load W-W Super cases with 12.5 grains of Lil'gun under a 40-gr V-Max, but if I am loading R-P cases, I use 13.0 grains of Lil'Gun with the same bullet, and those two loads are for the same rifle.  If I switch rifles, or bullet weights, I again have two different loads for it using the different brass types.
Because I have four different Hornet rifles, I have labeled all of my dozens of ammo boxes and brass for each rifle.  I also use an Excel spreadsheet to keep track of which loads shoot best in each rifle, and what brass type I am using for each rifle and load. Currently, I have 5,000+ Hornet cases, most of which is R-P but I now have a substantial amount of W-W Super.  Because I have separate brass for each rifle, I neck size only when reloading it, and that helps extend the case life.
So in summary, Yes the 22 Hornet cartridge can be challenging to find a load that shoots lights out, but with some patience and experimenting, superbly accurate loads can be achieved for your rifle.
Bert - a.k.a. Mr. Hornet!
  

AMEN! Mr. Hornet . . .I agree TOTALY! . . . .
Took me quite awhile to come around to my favorite load!
I once had the Winch. M43 in Hornet, but it went down the road a while ago . . . .
Never got it to shoot as well as my old M70, so-o-o . . . .
  

I have a Model 43 rifle that shoots lights out with Factory Remington (R22HN2) 45 grain Hollow Point ammo.  I can routinely shoot .75" 5-shot groups with that ammo.  It took a lot of effort to find a load of my own making that shoots as well. This was the most finicky of my Hornet rifles to find an accurate load!

My Model 54 22 Hornet really likes the 13.0 grains of Lil'Gun and the Hornady 40-gr V-Max bullet. 

My Model 70 (22 K-Hornet) shoots best with 14.5 grains of Lil'Gun with the 40-gr V-Max.  When shooting it with a 35-gr V-Max, 15.5 grains is the load.

My Single Shot K-Hornet (converted Winder Musket) prefers 13.8 grains of Lil'Gun with the 40-gr V-Max, and 14.5 grains with the 35-gr V-Max.

I really like reloading for the Hornet, but it does take some careful planning before I get started for each session!  I also have separate reloading dies for each rifle.

Bert

Chuck said

steve004 said

Chuck said
All the Colt Lightnings chamber a Winchester cartridge. But may be called something else.   My 45-85 uses the (45-70) Win 45-85 no WCF.  The Win 45-85 WCF is the same length as the Win 45-90. 
  

Just to add to the mix, I recall there were five M1886's made in .45-85.
  

But I bet they were actually 45-85 WCF which are the same length as the 45-90 WCF.  WRACO brass that just says 45-85 (missing the WCF) are the same length as a 45-70.  That is the length Colt, Marlin and Ballard used.  These cartridges are listed in the Winchester catalogs as 2.1".
  

Chuck - I'll bet you are correct on this.  A question would be if the rate of twist in these rifles was different from the .45-90. 

Bert H. said

Jim F in CT said
Some interesting facts I’ve learned . . . .
I was once invited to magazine writer, Ken Waters’ home in New Canaan, Ct., to discuss, or “hash over” some of his . . . .and my own . . . .findings about the Hornet cartridge.
I had found an excellent load for my 1939-era, M70, but Ken had found accuracy to be extremely “illusive” in his.
We both agreed that the Hercules #2400 powder was developed for use in the Hornet, but we had both found it to be “not quite right” in our loadings.
My most success was with the now unavailable Winchester #680 powder (now called #1680 by Accurate) . . . and Ken seemed to dislike the Hornet “in general”.
And just as an “FYI” . . .my rifle has a .223” groove diameter. (Just for giggles, I tried some “normal” .224” and actually noticed my groups enlarged . . .slightly!)
Anyhoo . . .This Hornet cartridge makes for some extremely cost-effective shooting!
  

I have been shooting (and reloading) the 22 Hornet for nearly 60-years now.  My dad got me started shooting an old converted Winchester Single Shot rifle that was rebarreled & chambered for 22 Hornet in the summer of 1966.  Because he was a dedicated reloader, we reloaded everything possible.  At that time, he was using 2400, but we also tried IMR 4227 as well.  As I gained my own experience (and acquired different rifles), I discovered that a load that will shoot well in one rifle very seldom ever shoots well in a different rifle... the 22 Hornet is a finicky cartridge, and it needs to be adjusted (tweaked) to each rifle. 
Having said that, in recent times, Hodgdon's Lil'Gun powder has been my "go to" for reloading the 22 Hornet and the 22 K-Hornet.  What I have discovered is that an absolute case full (light compression) is what works best.  I have also discovered that different case types (Remington, Winchester, Hornady, etc.) have different internal case capacities, and that mixing brass types should be avoided at all costs if you are seeking best accuracy.  Because the case types are different in their internal volume, it requires that a different amount powder be used to achieve best accuracy, and it can be as much as a 1.0 grain difference.  To give you an example, I load W-W Super cases with 12.5 grains of Lil'gun under a 40-gr V-Max, but if I am loading R-P cases, I use 13.0 grains of Lil'Gun with the same bullet, and those two loads are for the same rifle.  If I switch rifles, or bullet weights, I again have two different loads for it using the different brass types.
Because I have four different Hornet rifles, I have labeled all of my dozens of ammo boxes and brass for each rifle.  I also use an Excel spreadsheet to keep track of which loads shoot best in each rifle, and what brass type I am using for each rifle and load. Currently, I have 5,000+ Hornet cases, most of which is R-P but I now have a substantial amount of W-W Super.  Because I have separate brass for each rifle, I neck size only when reloading it, and that helps extend the case life.
So in summary, Yes the 22 Hornet cartridge can be challenging to find a load that shoots lights out, but with some patience and experimenting, superbly accurate loads can be achieved for your rifle.
Bert - a.k.a. Mr. Hornet!
  

AMEN! Mr. Hornet . . .I agree TOTALY! . . . .

Took me quite awhile to come around to my favorite load!

I once had the Winch. M43 in Hornet, but it went down the road a while ago . . . .

Never got it to shoot as well as my old M70, so-o-o . . . .

Jim F in CT said
Some interesting facts I’ve learned . . . .
I was once invited to magazine writer, Ken Waters’ home in New Canaan, Ct., to discuss, or “hash over” some of his . . . .and my own . . . .findings about the Hornet cartridge.
I had found an excellent load for my 1939-era, M70, but Ken had found accuracy to be extremely “illusive” in his.
We both agreed that the Hercules #2400 powder was developed for use in the Hornet, but we had both found it to be “not quite right” in our loadings.
My most success was with the now unavailable Winchester #680 powder (now called #1680 by Accurate) . . . and Ken seemed to dislike the Hornet “in general”.
And just as an “FYI” . . .my rifle has a .223” groove diameter. (Just for giggles, I tried some “normal” .224” and actually noticed my groups enlarged . . .slightly!)
Anyhoo . . .This Hornet cartridge makes for some extremely cost-effective shooting!
  

I have been shooting (and reloading) the 22 Hornet for nearly 60-years now.  My dad got me started shooting an old converted Winchester Single Shot rifle that was rebarreled & chambered for 22 Hornet in the summer of 1966.  Because he was a dedicated reloader, we reloaded everything possible.  At that time, he was using 2400, but we also tried IMR 4227 as well.  As I gained my own experience (and acquired different rifles), I discovered that a load that will shoot well in one rifle very seldom ever shoots well in a different rifle... the 22 Hornet is a finicky cartridge, and it needs to be adjusted (tweaked) to each rifle. 

Having said that, in recent times, Hodgdon's Lil'Gun powder has been my "go to" for reloading the 22 Hornet and the 22 K-Hornet.  What I have discovered is that an absolute case full (light compression) is what works best.  I have also discovered that different case types (Remington, Winchester, Hornady, etc.) have different internal case capacities, and that mixing brass types should be avoided at all costs if you are seeking best accuracy.  Because the case types are different in their internal volume, it requires that a different amount powder be used to achieve best accuracy, and it can be as much as a 1.0 grain difference.  To give you an example, I load W-W Super cases with 12.5 grains of Lil'gun under a 40-gr V-Max, but if I am loading R-P cases, I use 13.0 grains of Lil'Gun with the same bullet, and those two loads are for the same rifle.  If I switch rifles, or bullet weights, I again have two different loads for it using the different brass types.

Because I have four different Hornet rifles, I have labeled all of my dozens of ammo boxes and brass for each rifle.  I also use an Excel spreadsheet to keep track of which loads shoot best in each rifle, and what brass type I am using for each rifle and load. Currently, I have 5,000+ Hornet cases, most of which is R-P but I now have a substantial amount of W-W Super.  Because I have separate brass for each rifle, I neck size only when reloading it, and that helps extend the case life.

So in summary, Yes the 22 Hornet cartridge can be challenging to find a load that shoots lights out, but with some patience and experimenting, superbly accurate loads can be achieved for your rifle.

Bert - a.k.a. Mr. Hornet!

steve004 said

Chuck said
All the Colt Lightnings chamber a Winchester cartridge. But may be called something else.   My 45-85 uses the (45-70) Win 45-85 no WCF.  The Win 45-85 WCF is the same length as the Win 45-90. 
  

Just to add to the mix, I recall there were five M1886's made in .45-85.
  

But I bet they were actually 45-85 WCF which are the same length as the 45-90 WCF.  WRACO brass that just says 45-85 (missing the WCF) are the same length as a 45-70.  That is the length Colt, Marlin and Ballard used.  These cartridges are listed in the Winchester catalogs as 2.1".

Josh (TW56) contacted me by PM yesterday and I think we've got it worked out.  He'll find a little "something" in his Christmas stocking that should solve the problem.

FWIW... 

The factory scope blocks on a Model 70 Target rifle went on the front receiver ring and barrel. Like this:

The receiver block was 0.185" high, equivalent to the Unertl or Lyman "U" code block.  The barrel hole spacing is 1.76" according to the blueprints. The barrel block for the Target Model was 0.360" tall (heights are measured as though the block was sitting on a flat surface, this is not the height of the top of the block above the top of a round barrel).  The National Match used a 0.470" tall block and the Bull Gun (originally) used a 0.262" tall block that was flat on top like a Unertl B-70.

As for style, the factory blocks were what I call "Lyman-type" and were coved on top to facilitate use of the metallic sights when the scope was removed.  The pre-war blocks (common until at least the mid-1950s) had both "Unertl crescents" on the right and "Winchester dimples" on the left side. The dimples may be visible in the photo above. They only matter if installing a Winchester A5 or Lyman 5A type scope that anchored to the block via "pins" on the left side.  For pretty much anything else you don't need the dimples.

Best,

Lou

I was once invited to magazine writer, Ken Waters’ home in New Canaan, Ct., to discuss, or “hash over” some of his . . . .and my own . . . .findings about the Hornet cartridge.

I had found an excellent load for my 1939-era, M70, but Ken had found accuracy to be extremely “illusive” in his.

We both agreed that the Hercules #2400 powder was developed for use in the Hornet, but we had both found it to be “not quite right” in our loadings.

My most success was with the now unavailable Winchester #680 powder (now called #1680 by Accurate) . . . and Ken seemed to dislike the Hornet “in general”.

And just as an “FYI” . . .my rifle has a .223” groove diameter. (Just for giggles, I tried some “normal” .224” and actually noticed my groups enlarged . . .slightly!)

Anyhoo . . .This Hornet cartridge makes for some extremely cost-effective shooting!

Chuck said
All the Colt Lightnings chamber a Winchester cartridge. But may be called something else.   My 45-85 uses the (45-70) Win 45-85 no WCF.  The Win 45-85 WCF is the same length as the Win 45-90. 
  

Just to add to the mix, I recall there were five M1886's made in .45-85.

I ended up with a rear block that fit with a LITTLE light visible under the central portion (contact on both sides) and when screwed down, I could see the two screws between the block and the bridge.

This block had NO wobble before the screws were installed . . . .think “three point contact” between the block and bridge.

This was years ago, and the scope has always maintained its’ zero.

In an effort to mitigate blue wear under these blocks, I first installed a thin layer of plastic electrical tape before torquing down the screws.