Winchester Collector - Forum: General Discussions & Questions

Pete Hynard on Model 1892 in 25-20 rebarrel project

Thu, 23 Apr 2026 18:47:37 +0000

Mark, those are exceptional groups you’re getting with the Remington 86-grain JSP bullet. My compliments. There’s nothing wrong with your shooting.

In my own experience, I have never found a cast bullet load that can quite equal a jacketed bullet in accuracy. It is the holy grail. But if your cast bullets aren’t even getting close, something is wrong. If you’re getting keyholing, something is definitely wrong.

You say that your bore measures 0.258” and the Meister bullets you’re using measure 0.258” as well. One option is to try a larger-sized bullet. Cast bullets are known to give their best accuracy when sized 0.001” or even 0.002” over bore size. The idea is to give a tight bore seal but still allow the loaded cartridge to chamber. That’s the reason for the 0.001”-0.002” range. Anything smaller will allow gas cutting and anything larger won’t chamber.

I don’t think bullet alloy is the issue in this case. Soft lead bullets can lead to leading but Meister advertises their bullets as “hard cast”. I have no doubt this is true.

The keyholing you described makes me think bore condition is the problem. Cast bullets like a near-perfect bore. Can you send a bore pic of your rifle? To take the photo I posted, I placed a piece of paper inside the open action, shone a flashlight on the paper and pointed my camera down the muzzle. I used a Canon point-and-shoot, which is not designed for this sort of thing. I had to try different angles and distances back before I got anything I could post. My wife was holding the flashlight for me. It almost drove her crazy.

If your bullets are keyholing, it means the rifling isn't getting the grip it needs and the bullets aren't getting the spin they need. Bore leading can lead to this. A cast bullet going down a rough bore will leave lead streaks behind and the next bullet will leave more. In no time, the grooves fill with lead and the rifling loses its grip. This is more likely to happen as the velocity increases. The question for you is, are you getting leading from your faster loads? When you scrub your bore after shooting, do you see lead streaking on the patch?

If bore condition is the problem, shooting a jacketed bullet might be the easiest and cheapest solution. Hornady still makes a 60-grain JSP for the .25-50.

Replacing or re-lining the barrel will be costly and it might not give you what you want. In my experience, I have never found a cast bullet that can quite equal a jacketed bullet in accuracy. If you have other rifles with better bores, maybe this is the place to look for the holy grail.

Good luck. Let me know how things turn out.

Pete

Chuck on Results of the NRA Awards - Houston 2026

Wed, 22 Apr 2026 16:48:50 +0000

Your efforts make us all proud to be fellow WACA Members.

TXGunNut on Results of the NRA Awards - Houston 2026

Wed, 22 Apr 2026 15:54:49 +0000

Good job and congratulations! Thanks for putting in all the hard work and making the trek from Billings to Houston to represent WACA.

Mike

Roger Adam on Results of the NRA Awards - Houston 2026

Wed, 22 Apr 2026 13:34:10 +0000

Heather said
Roger and Beth Adam (MT) graciously represented the association at the 2026 Annual Meetings and Exhibits held this past weekend in Houston. Their display, titled The Winchester International Match Single-Shot Rifle of 1913, was very well received.

Roger and Beth were honored with the Best Educational Classic Arms Award, as well as a silver medallion recognizing their exhibit as one of the Ten Best Arms Exhibited at the NRA Annual Meetings.

Thank you to both Roger and Beth for their efforts. We couldn't be happier for their well-deserved win.

Heather Martin
Executive Secretary

Thanks Heather. It was an honor to represent WACA at the NRA annual meeting and exhibits. To win a major display award and a “silver medallion” for one of the 10 best firearms exhibited at this years event was special and unexpected.
The article about the 1913 international match rifle in the recent Collector magazine turned out great as well. Thanks to Brad Dunbar for his help in putting that together.

Heather on Results of the NRA Awards - Houston 2026

Wed, 22 Apr 2026 12:56:27 +0000

Roger and Beth Adam (MT) graciously represented the association at the 2026 Annual Meetings and Exhibits held this past weekend in Houston. Their display, titled The Winchester International Match Single-Shot Rifle of 1913, was very well received.

Roger and Beth were honored with the Best Educational Classic Arms Award, as well as a silver medallion recognizing their exhibit as one of the Ten Best Arms Exhibited at the NRA Annual Meetings.

Thank you to both Roger and Beth for their efforts. We couldn't be happier for their well-deserved win.

Heather Martin

Executive Secretary

Brad Dunbar on Calendar and Featured Winchester Submissions Wanted

Wed, 22 Apr 2026 12:11:07 +0000

Hello

We could use some calendar submissions from WACA members for the next calendar. We can always use submissions for the Featured Winchester page in the back of every magazine too.

The best way to see the type of photos required is to look at our recent calendars and past magazines. Calendar entries need just a few sentences for their captions. The Featured Winchester submissions should have a few paragraphs of text. I can help with both, if needed.

I've added two images from an article in the Winter 2021 magazines that may help you with photos, if needed. Obviously, you can also look at the article in the Winter 2021 magazine instead, pages 50-51.

Please email me with your submissions and any questions. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks again!

brad@winchestercollector.org

MCorrell on Model 1892 in 25-20 rebarrel project

Tue, 21 Apr 2026 21:01:37 +0000

Hi Pete, thanks for the info and bore pic. The bore on mine isn’t as nice as yours but isn’t too bad. The groove diameter is .258 inch.

Going through my reloading notes, I had the best grouping by far using the Remington 86 grain JSP bullets of .258 inch diameter over 8 grains of IMR 4227 powder with an average velocity of 1324 FPS and average 50 yard groupings of .42 inches. This was on the bench with a tang peep sight.

My best results with cast bullets was Meister 85 grain plain base bullet of .258 inch diameter with 7 grains of IMR 4227 powder. This gave an average velocity of 1138 FPS and 1.36 average 50 yard groupings.

My goal has been to find a cast load that matches the JSP accuracy, but, so far no luck. If I try to push the cast bullets closer to 1300 FPS the groupings open up to 5 to 6 inches with some keyholes appearing.

Zebulon on out of bounds?

Mon, 20 Apr 2026 03:21:09 +0000

TXGunNut said
S&W also built a compact little double-stack 9 called the 469. It was a bit chunkier than today's compact mini 9minimeters but very dependable, or so I may have heard. Or maybe not.

Mike

They were. For a time -- before Gaston Glock, that is -- Smith & Wesson bid fair to dominate American law enforcement's gradual acceptance of the automatic pistol. A whole lot of investigators I saw go for the subcompact smith nine millimeters.

There were exceptions. I remember a conversation I had with Deputy Al Maddox after he recovered from his gunfight with Don Cherry in that motel room in 1969. Cherry wounded Maddox and killed his partner, Deputy Eddie Walthers. Maddox had been armed, as many plainclothes officers were then, with a 5-shot snubby when he and Walthers tried to execute their capias warrant. Al said he ran it dry and, although he'd shot Cherry in the chest at point blank range, the woman Cherry was with beat him over the head with the room telephone and she and Cherry escaped. As soon as he got out of the hospital and returned to duty, Al said he bought a Browning P-35 and carried it cocked and locked, along with two spare 14-round magazines. He was not about to run dry ever again.

Zebulon on out of bounds?

Mon, 20 Apr 2026 02:42:37 +0000

The metal finish was Teflon and the one-piece sight was called a "guttersnipe" -- Kimber tried something like that sight once and it didn't sell. Only about 2000 ASP pistols were made and most were by contract to government agencies. They are highly collectible. Theodore had some sort of connection with CIA and his pistol and holsters were said to be popular within the agency. Theodore was so associated with espionage that the later James Bond novels written by John Gardner swapped Bond's PPK for an ASP.

Remember that, at the time, there really wasn't a 9mm para as small as the steel-framed PPK available and that was, at most, a 380. Walther did for a brief time offer a P38 Kurtz but that was pretty much the field. In context, the ASP addressed a real need. It was too expensive, so when Smith & Wesson started paying attention and shrank the 39 into the subcompact 439, and SIG-Sauer offered the P225, the ASP became a collectible.

TXGunNut on out of bounds?

Mon, 20 Apr 2026 02:22:16 +0000

S&W also built a compact little double-stack 9 called the 469. It was a bit chunkier than today's compact mini 9minimeters but very dependable, or so I may have heard. Or maybe not.

Mike

Deg on out of bounds?

Mon, 20 Apr 2026 01:29:23 +0000

well - that is an interesting concept

Zebulon on out of bounds?

Mon, 20 Apr 2026 00:32:59 +0000

Ben, the translucent magazine windows put me in mind of Paris Theodore's ASP, his extremely modified Model 39 of the Seventies that pre-dated [and likely influenced] all the subcompact nine millimeter autos. His Seventrees company offered some very advanced holster designs for the time.

TXGunNut on Texas Gun Collectors Spring Show and Auction

Sun, 19 Apr 2026 22:22:28 +0000

Ben-

I don't know who your neighbors will be but I'm hoping they will be able to cover your table after you leave. We're glad to have you!

Mike

Chuck on Is the value of 75-98% Winchesters down sine the Election of 2024…or not?

Sun, 19 Apr 2026 22:09:13 +0000

I collect because it is a hobby. My wife will sell all the stuff and get some of the money back. Wish I had some insider information as to which guns might go up. Ian, I agree with what you are saying.

People don't spend money on your hobbies that you need to live on.

Ben on Texas Gun Collectors Spring Show and Auction

Sun, 19 Apr 2026 20:30:15 +0000

Mike... I'm honored to get table #1... but since I will need to leave at 2:30 on Saturday to get to the airport to fly out, maybe it should go to someone else? Unless you have someone already in mind to take my place.... I'm looking forward to seeing you & other WACA members there. It really is an excellent run show.