Winchester Collector - Forum: General Discussions & Questions

martin rabeno on Colorado Collector's Show May 16-17

Sun, 10 May 2026 10:45:00 +0000

Ben I do not. But possibly one of my gunmaker friends might. They are more familiar with that end of the craft than I am. I think there are 4 or 5 coming. I will know when I show up Thursday and see what's going on

Zebulon on Winchester and the .280 Ross

Sun, 10 May 2026 05:04:15 +0000

Steve, thanks for the additional images.

You speak of a "mousetrap" -- indicating the rotation of the lugs into battery is spring-driven, occurs instantaneously, and is triggered -- at a guess -- when the bolt face reaches it's forwardmost position inside the receiver ring. I assume manual retraction of the bolt to commence ejection must reverse-rotate the lugs and re-cock them.

Getting the parts dimensioned to make the contraption work had to have been somebody's nightmare.

The only straight-pull bolt action rifle I've ever used is a Browning T-bolt I still own. It's a neat little gun and the Ross is beautiful but i'm not sure the marginal increase in speed of manipulation is worth the additional mechanical complexity, particularly in a battle rifle. Browning's long recoil action - which existed at the time - although not nearly so elegant in appearance -- was probably more robust and made of fewer, cruder parts. And if you had sound bridgework, it was much better at rate of fire. While the original Remington Model 8 rifle was not so chambered, the Model 81 could fire the 300 Savage round, which approximates original 30/06 ballistics. I had one.

And most post-mortems concerning poor George Grey do put the blame on bullet failure, ignoring the completely idiotic practice of chasing down lions on horseback to induce a charge. At least according to the late Peter Capstick (granted, not the most reliable source), all or most of Grey's rounds hit the lion in the chest but failed to adequately penetrate its heavy chest muscles. Now, that begs the question whether the bullet failed structurally or it just had insufficient weight and momentum to do the job. The average pukka sahib at the Anglo-Indian Club would say Grey would still be alive if he'd used a Holland 465 or something ....but nobody really knows. There has been one instance in recent years of a very large American Grizzly being defensively killed mid-charge by an Elk hunter with a 7mm Remington Magnum rifle, the external ballistics of which are not far off the 280 Ross. And a big Grizzly is much heavier and stronger than any African lion. Too many variables and not enough instances but the best guess is the poor bullet construction of the day was the proximate cause of Grey's death.

tim tomlinson on Winchester and the .280 Ross

Sun, 10 May 2026 02:58:59 +0000

I rather enjoy the "mouse trap" anology! There is absolutely NO WAY I would ever get one put back in a rifle!! Ask anyone who know me well now just why. My hands have a decided tremor now days. Some things I work around, others I leave alone. Tim

Ben on Colorado Collector's Show May 16-17

Sun, 10 May 2026 02:24:49 +0000

Are you familiar with a "T. Jersa" gun maker from the Denver area? I have a custom Mauser in 30-338 that I would like to find any information about him... thanks. Ben

steve004 on Winchester and the .280 Ross

Sun, 10 May 2026 01:36:28 +0000

I've had a couple Remington 742's and yes indeed, I see the similarity of the bolts. The Remington bolt head also spins to lock and unlock into the rear of the barrel. It is in a way, also a straight-pull - it is just pulled back through the gas operating function vs. manual pull on the bolt.

Bert H. on Winchester and the .280 Ross

Sun, 10 May 2026 00:56:25 +0000

That bolt in the Ross rifle reminds me of the bolt in my Remington Model 742, but it differs in the way it functions.

Bert

steve004 on Winchester and the .280 Ross

Sat, 09 May 2026 22:55:05 +0000

Bill -

It would be the bolt on the left - that is the final position of the bolt head after it has rotated into the receiver ring. It enters horizontally and end up in the vertical position.

To illustrate - here is the bolt making it's way toward the receiver ring:

Here it is starting to enter:

It has now entered the receiver ring and further push forward on the bolt will start to make it turn:

The bolt head is now turn and if you peer in at an angle, you can watch the lugs rotate into place

The bolt head is now fully turned and seated. It is blocked form view. But prior to this is when you can see it turning.

By the way, as I was handling both the M1905 or M-10 bolts, they both snapped shut on me. Also it took me about four times to get the M-10 bolt back in the receiver as I would lightly touch it to the inside of the receiver and SNAP! (It always makes me jump).

martin rabeno on Colorado Collector's Show May 16-17

Sat, 09 May 2026 21:42:04 +0000

I will be there. I have no idea where my table is, but will be hanging with my Colorado gunmaker friends. I will have a nice 73 1st model rifle for sale and two engraved Winchesters displaying. Keeping it simple and easy to transport Looking forward to it. Did it all the time when I lived in Durango Co

Zebulon on Winchester and the .280 Ross

Sat, 09 May 2026 21:27:39 +0000

Steve, I assume the longer bolt on the right illustrates the head extended position.

I'm having trouble visualizing which photo illustrates the locking lugs rotated into locking/firing position.

Ben on Colorado Collector's Show May 16-17

Sat, 09 May 2026 20:26:09 +0000

Hope to see you at the Colorado Collector's gun show next weekend. Greeley, Colorado... just 45 north of Denver. It's a nice venue with good lighting. The focus in on antique, C&R firearms... no black guns... no Beanie Babies, China scopes, candles, or beef jerky. There are always some amazing displays too! Don't miss out!

steve004 on Winchester and the .280 Ross

Sat, 09 May 2026 19:39:19 +0000

Just found this mix of different vintage .280's

steff on Winchester and the .280 Ross

Sat, 09 May 2026 17:04:23 +0000

I'd trade this box for an empty civilian 30-03, .45 ACP, .32 ACP, or .25 ACP box from that era. I've been looking for those forever.

Steff

Bert H. on Winchester and the .280 Ross

Sat, 09 May 2026 16:58:27 +0000

Thanks to all for posting the pictures... they really clear up many questions.

Bert

steve004 on Winchester and the .280 Ross

Sat, 09 May 2026 16:34:53 +0000

Steff -

Thanks for posting the photo of the box - you had the box and I had the cartridge!

Bill -

I heard Halger was very interested in not paying patent royalties. Changing his cartridge from .288 to .284 literally changed the caliber and that was likely consequential form a patent pespective.

Bo -

I think when we think back to the years surrounding the introduction of the .280 Ross, great leaps were made in velocity. What followed terribly behind was bullet construction. Driving poorly constructed bullets at high velocity - while dangerous big game hunting - did produce some loss of animal life but also some loss of human life. The advancements made in bullet construction is really quite remarkable. Particularly the premium bullets than can now be had.

steve004 on Winchester and the .280 Ross

Sat, 09 May 2026 16:03:56 +0000

Here's a photo of two M-10 bolts - with bolt head extended and one with bolt head retracted:

And here's a Model 1905 bolt next to an M-10 bolt:

Both are mouse traps. In fact, one snapped shut when I laid it on the table