Chuck, TR, Bill, Bob, and Jeremy,

The WACA Forum just keeps on rolling out, information along with it's quality opinions!

Bob,

Thanks for setting me straight on the "+", stamping on the firing pin. My assumption was premature! The slots make sense to me now as a flat bladed "turn screw", would certainly do the trick! I would imagine it's a fine thread and maybe proprietary to Winchester.

Bill, 

With you're pictures and explanations, you certainly spelled out, the difference and similarities of the M-1876, as I wasn't sure.

Chuck, I completely understood you're point, and TR, I am in full agreement with you, as far as being a step that wasn't needed or required as Winchester, previously thought!

Tony

Bert

Bob

The Bushing on the first models like the top photo of Bill's post you can see a slot on each side of the firing pin. With the pin removed you can put a common screwdriver in it and its threaded in. The bushing has a radius milled on the inside end of it that matches up with the radius of the pin so it had positive stop going forward.  

What I understand is the 123 or CCC were 3  inspections or tests done to the barrel and was not the violent proof. You first had the CCC then for short time they had +++ right about the start of the 2nd model the the 123 showed up along with the VP proof.

I have seen the + on firing pins but not all and I have seen it on first model pins and on later ones. I never did a in depth look at it taking firing pins out to see if its a serial range thing but I would doubt its a replacement indication. My guess it was a inspection mark. 

Bob 

How about you?   Do you have any rifles or shotguns that were featured in the book?  A previous owner's collection still counts.

Anthony said
In regards to these two models, and especially the early model 1873, as I'm not sure about reason that the "Bushing", was used on the bolt, face where the firing pin extrudes, or strikes the cartridge, in the closed breach. These are evident naturally when the breach is opened, revealing the bolt face. I am aware that Winchester did modify the design on the later model 1873's, and eliminated the bushing.
Not sure if the early M-1876 had this or not? Bill Hockett, please feel free to add you're comments on this! 
So my question is for Bob, (1873 man), TR, and others to comment here, why was it used or what was the purpose in these early designs?
Was the bushing a hardened material, (steel), for wear purposes, that Winchester decided possibly wasn't needed?
Tony
  

Tony, apparently the Model 1876 followed this design change like the Model 1873.  Madis backs this up on page 233 of my 1 of 1000 edition of "The Winchester Book."

See photos below.  SN 9911 is a second model and has the bushing.  SN 33812 is an early third model and has the solid face breechbolt.

Henry Mero said
Yeah Mark ,You're about 7 hours from Seaforth/Egmondville, down on the other end of Lake Huron. I am also planning on attending the Ohio show, if Donald will let Me in to the country.
  

I don’t know Harry.  You are a  very suspicious looking character. 

You'll enjoy it! The OGCA/WACA Show is a nice get together.

Tony

Buck94 said

Anthony said
I have never seen any printed material or verified information, showing that Winchester matched up any sets. It has been my understanding that for the past 41 years, matched sets we're put together by collectors, with serial numbers under 1000, as only 1000 Eagle Scout Rifles were made.
You bring up a good point with the case, as the original cases were Walnut not Mahogany as the seller has indicated. At $14,750.00, I feel he's more than covering the expense of the custom made Mahogany 2 rifle case that was made for these! It surely doesn't smell right to me!
I've only owned a dozen of these over the years, and only a few sets that we're put together, after they left the factory. This offering is a first for my eyes!
Tony
  

I agree, there is no record of matching sets being marketed by Winchester that I’m aware of and if true these by default are the very rare few collectors have cobbled together! The case he is showing is just a one gun case. Looks like either a John Wayne Duke or Limited Edition I case. The actual Case produced by Winchester for the Eagle was blue on the inside and has a Glass Eagle orb with it. I know the seller, have bought some great stuff from him and he is a very nice guy out of TN. If you want a matched set good luck finding another! I would wager the Eagle on GB goes for around 10k by itself but you never know. Two bulls go at it and one would have to consider if you are willing to pay more why not just get this matched set. Unless this sells before then I can’t imagine this set doesn’t limit the upside of the standalone Eagle unless of course 3 or more Bulls show up 😀 NOW, what is even more desirable is the 1 of 75 Boy Scout Diamond Jubilee also listed for sale on GB. I can’t fathom a 1 of 75 vs a 1 of 1000 is currently pulling 2k less in bids. I have seen the occasional Eagle and Randy scored 3 in a short time but other than my own BSDJ and one fake one a broker tried to get me to buy I have not seen another of these and with only 75 made the odds are good we won’t see another for a while.
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1200550150
  

Buck,

I couldn't tell for sure on the case, and thought it was for two rifles. Thanks for setting me straight.

Tony

Jeremy P said

1873man said
From what I have seen the firing pin was the harder metal to keep the end from deforming and I haven't seen any sign that the bushing was hardened. It could be that they made the bushing softer and made it a replaceable wear item. Later after the guns were being used for years they saw there was no issue with the firing pin and eliminated the bushing as a cost and production savings. 
Bob
  

That's a very sound theory, actually...
  

I can understand that kind of thinking also.

Is the bushing a pressed in part? Not that I want to remove one, but they look almost pressed in. I'm sure that Winchester had a pretty snug fit on these so they wouldn't come loose over time. I hadn't seen any specs on these anywhere indicating the dimensions or the sizes of these.

Bob, If a firing pin on an early First Model, 73 src. has a "+", sign on it, is that an indication that it was replaced? This would be my guess.

In reading up on Gordon's book he states that a "123", stamp or"CCC", on the underside of the barrel, indicates three separate processes that was performed. Do we know what those three things were that we're performed?

Thanks,

Tony

1873man said
From what I have seen the firing pin was the harder metal to keep the end from deforming and I haven't seen any sign that the bushing was hardened. It could be that they made the bushing softer and made it a replaceable wear item. Later after the guns were being used for years they saw there was no issue with the firing pin and eliminated the bushing as a cost and production savings. 
Bob
  

That's a very sound theory, actually...