Buck94 said
Well the plot thickens. They lowered their rate to $380. Still crazy high so I called in and was speaking to the young lady who answered the phone and questioned the rate. The owner comes on the line and went off on me. He said his Fed Ex rate alone was $120. Possible I suppose but when I told him there are better rates he said it is impossible because he is direct through FedEx. I don’t know if he is stupid, lazy or a liar but I then asked why he was adding over $250 on top of the shipping rate and he said he deserved to make money. Heck, I’m a capitalist and I agree but when I told him that is a ridiculous mark up he told me he would take it back to the auction house and hung up on me. Breaks my heart! In 15 minutes I had googled the closest FFL to the auction house, called them and they agreed to ship it to me for 1/3rd what this clown was trying to charge me. Interestingly the auction house or at least the person I spoke with there didn’t seem to care he is taking advantage of their clients. Makes me wonder if he is kicking back to them and that is part of the reason for the outrageous prices? Happy ending for me though!
  

I've had minimal experience buying from auction houses.  As I understand it, some auction houses have their own staff do the shipping.  Other auction houses have the shipping service performed by an outside business.  They receive payment for that service from the winning bidder.  That payment needs to cover the actual shipping charge and insurance as well as the time for their employees to pack the gun up, perform record keeping, accounting oversight, pay someone to answer the phone etc. etc.  And of course as a business, a profit would be expected to be built in - and it needs to be profitable enough to entice someone to do it vs. do something else that would be more profitable.  This is making more sense to me than when I first read the original post.

As to the gun itself, the "in the ordinance pipeline" .... An intriguing thought anyway.

I'm glad you like the gun.  As you say, you were able to purchase it for much less than other examples you pursued.  

Winchester, Model 1873 carbine, cal. .44-40 WCF, S/N 719510B, with 14-inch barrel.
Winchester, Model 1873 carbine, cal. .44-40 WCF, S/N ATF-33300-252, with 15-inch barrel.
Winchester, Model 1876, cal. .45-70, Northwest Mounted Police Carbine, S/N 46198, with an 8-
inch barrel, no magazine tube.
Winchester, Model 1885 carbine, cal. .25-35, S/N 104783, with 15-inch barrel.
Winchester, Model 1885 carbine, cal. .44 WCF, S/N 75808, with 15-inch barrel.
Winchester, Model 1885 carbine, cal. .44 WCF, S/N 103509, with 15-inch barrel.
Winchester, Model 1885 carbine, cal. .44-40 WCF, S/N 102429, with 15-inch barrel.
Winchester, Model 1886, cal. .33 WCF, S/N 149317A, with 14-inch barrel.

There is a Model 1885 carbine listed here with antique status.  But tangentially what interested me the most was a Model 1886 with a 14-inch barrel!  Of course it wouldn't have antique status but a 14 inch barrel!  And obviously determined to be original 🙂 

Oh, and a Model 1876 Northwest Mounted Police Carbine - in .45-70 - with an 8 inch barrel!  No magazine tube.  Was it ever there?  I'd be fascinated to know more details about this carbine.

Rick C said

steve004 said

Anthony said

Rick C said

Anthony said
Bob,
Those are nice examples to see as a reference.
Thanks for posting it!
 
Tony
  

Great opportunity for me to give a shout out to Bob(1873man). He has helped me immensely over the years with questions and concerns about the model 1873, and saved me more than once dealing with undesirable sellers with fake guns, forged serial numbers, letters, etc.
I can say the same for Bert, JWA, and others on various models. Just another good reason for anyone new thinking of joining WACA. You will save money just for the above alone. 
  

Rick,
I can truly appreciate you're kind words for Bob, and the others that you mentioned, as I can say the same and am in full agreement with you! 
Tony
  

I echo Rick and Tony's comments about Bob's tremendous knowledge and helpfulness.
On the topic of this 14 inch M1873, I've never owned a rifle or carbine with barrel under 16 inches so can't claim extensive knowledge.  So - does a 14 inch carbine still require specific ATF clearance - even though it has antique status?  
  

Steve, my thoughts are no it doesn’t need special clearance. it was always my understanding that the BATF considers any firearm Proven pre-1899, as an antique and they don’t deal with it. Personally, if I have a rifle with a barrel less than 16”, I want proof of a BATF letter or Cody letter or some form of provenance from the factory or historical document proving same so that I don’t find out the hard way.
I guess if you’re transferring, selling, purveying, etc. the onus is on the owner to make sure, and then the buyer or person in possession. Bert or Bob or someone can probably confirm or correct me. 
  

Rick -

What puzzles me is the ATF list:

Section III – Firearms removed from the provisions of the National Firearms Act and
classified as curios or relics, still subject to the provisions of 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, the
Gun Control Act of
1968……………………………………………………………………………...………. 22

Here's an excerpt and some of these Model 1873's have antique serial numbers:

Winchester, Model 1873 carbine, cal. .32, S/N 637480, having 14-inch barrel.
Winchester, Model 1873 carbine, cal. .32 WCF, S/N 382028, with 15-inch barrel.
Winchester, Model 1873 carbine, cal. .32 WCF, S/N 637429B, with 14-inch barrel.
Winchester, Model 1873 carbine, cal. .32-20 WCF, S/N 695081 B, with 14-inch barrel.
Winchester, Model 1873 carbine, cal. .44, S/N 131590A, with 15-inch barrel.
Winchester, Model 1873 carbine, cal. .44 WCF, S/N 85502, with 14-inch barrel.
Winchester, Model 1873 carbine, cal. .44 WCF, S/N 190542B, with 15-inch barrel.
Winchester, Model 1873 carbine, cal. .44 WCF, S/N 526199, with 13 1/2-inch barrel.
Winchester, Model 1873 carbine, cal. .44 WCF, S/N 604237B, with 14-inch barrel.
Winchester, Model 1873 carbine, cal. .44 WCF, S/N 688628B, with 14-inch barrel.
Winchester, Model 1873 carbine, cal. .44 WCF, S/N 691388B, with 14-inch barrel.
Winchester, Model 1873 carbine, cal. .44 WCF, S/N 710976B, with 14-inch barrel.
Winchester, Model 1873 carbine, cal. .44 WCF, S/N 717912 B, with 14-inch barrel.
Winchester, Model 1873 carbine, cal. .44 WCF, S/N 718977B, with 14-inch barrel.
Winchester, Model 1873 carbine, cal. .44-40 WCF, S/N 88502, with 14-inch barrel.
Winchester, Model 1873 carbine, cal. .44-40 WCF, S/N 579080B, with 15-inch barrel.
Winchester, Model 1873 carbine, cal. .44-40 WCF, S/N 612999B, with 14-inch barrel.

steve004 said

Anthony said

Rick C said

Anthony said
Bob,
Those are nice examples to see as a reference.
Thanks for posting it!
 
Tony
  

Great opportunity for me to give a shout out to Bob(1873man). He has helped me immensely over the years with questions and concerns about the model 1873, and saved me more than once dealing with undesirable sellers with fake guns, forged serial numbers, letters, etc.
I can say the same for Bert, JWA, and others on various models. Just another good reason for anyone new thinking of joining WACA. You will save money just for the above alone. 
  

Rick,
I can truly appreciate you're kind words for Bob, and the others that you mentioned, as I can say the same and am in full agreement with you! 
Tony
  

I echo Rick and Tony's comments about Bob's tremendous knowledge and helpfulness.
On the topic of this 14 inch M1873, I've never owned a rifle or carbine with barrel under 16 inches so can't claim extensive knowledge.  So - does a 14 inch carbine still require specific ATF clearance - even though it has antique status?  
  

Steve, my thoughts are no it doesn’t need special clearance. it was always my understanding that the BATF considers any firearm Proven pre-1899, as an antique and they don’t deal with it. Personally, if I have a rifle with a barrel less than 16”, I want proof of a BATF letter or Cody letter or some form of provenance from the factory or historical document proving same so that I don’t find out the hard way.

I guess if you’re transferring, selling, purveying, etc. the onus is on the owner to make sure, and then the buyer or person in possession. Bert or Bob or someone can probably confirm or correct me. 

Rick C said

Anthony said
Bob,
Those are nice examples to see as a reference.
Thanks for posting it!
 
Tony
  

Great opportunity for me to give a shout out to Bob(1873man). He has helped me immensely over the years with questions and concerns about the model 1873, and saved me more than once dealing with undesirable sellers with fake guns, forged serial numbers, letters, etc.
I can say the same for Bert, JWA, and others on various models. Just another good reason for anyone new thinking of joining WACA. You will save money just for the above alone. 
  

Yes Bob is literally THE 1873 man! 

God bless him, Bert and others including Micheal Puzio who keep meticulous records and ensure this sport stays reputable by verifying and checking to see if guns are the “Real Mcoy”. We owe them a great debt and I love their passion for these guns! 

Yes Ricky… I too can think of a couple crows off the top of my head that roost up here in Canada who sell and circulate fraudulent guns and definitely bring WACA and the sport in disrepute by faking CODY letters and misleading new buyers who do not have access to the “boys” on WACA to help and guide them, and provide another and pairs of eyes before making a big purchase 

Anthony said

Rick C said

Anthony said
Bob,
Those are nice examples to see as a reference.
Thanks for posting it!
 
Tony
  

Great opportunity for me to give a shout out to Bob(1873man). He has helped me immensely over the years with questions and concerns about the model 1873, and saved me more than once dealing with undesirable sellers with fake guns, forged serial numbers, letters, etc.
I can say the same for Bert, JWA, and others on various models. Just another good reason for anyone new thinking of joining WACA. You will save money just for the above alone. 
  

Rick,
I can truly appreciate you're kind words for Bob, and the others that you mentioned, as I can say the same and am in full agreement with you! 
Tony
  

I echo Rick and Tony's comments about Bob's tremendous knowledge and helpfulness.

On the topic of this 14 inch M1873, I've never owned a rifle or carbine with barrel under 16 inches so can't claim extensive knowledge.  So - does a 14 inch carbine still require specific ATF clearance - even though it has antique status?  

Rick C said

Anthony said
Bob,
Those are nice examples to see as a reference.
Thanks for posting it!
 
Tony
  

Great opportunity for me to give a shout out to Bob(1873man). He has helped me immensely over the years with questions and concerns about the model 1873, and saved me more than once dealing with undesirable sellers with fake guns, forged serial numbers, letters, etc.
I can say the same for Bert, JWA, and others on various models. Just another good reason for anyone new thinking of joining WACA. You will save money just for the above alone. 
  

Rick,

I can truly appreciate you're kind words for Bob, and the others that you mentioned, as I can say the same and am in full agreement with you! 

Tony

Anthony said
Bob,
Those are nice examples to see as a reference.
Thanks for posting it!
 
Tony
  

Great opportunity for me to give a shout out to Bob(1873man). He has helped me immensely over the years with questions and concerns about the model 1873, and saved me more than once dealing with undesirable sellers with fake guns, forged serial numbers, letters, etc.
I can say the same for Bert, JWA, and others on various models. Just another good reason for anyone new thinking of joining WACA. You will save money just for the above alone. 

Anthony said
Bob,
Those are nice examples to see as a reference.
Thanks for posting it!
 
Tony
  

I agree - more things to look for when I pull a piece out of the safe.

Those are nice examples to see as a reference.

Thanks for posting it!

Tony

Bob

BigIron said

Anthony said

BigIron said
This morning the Cody letter was found along with ATF form 4467 dated December 11, 1968 with info matching.   Cody letter confirms details.  Carbine, caliber 44, barrel length 14 inches, received in warehouse March 27, 1888, shipped from warehouse March 27, 1888 Order number 5153.   ATF letter has some interesting info about a Captain Abel M Lozanao from Harlingen Texas.  I will send Bob the pictures.  
  

That's great news!
In you're first post you mentioned at the end what you needed to possibly sell this. As long as everything checks out and I assume it will, you now will have whatever you need.
 
Tony
  

Thank you Tony.  I am still wondering about the legal pitfalls of possibly selling this rifle.  I am not a dealer and do not have the information I need to comfortably offer this rifle for sale.  Are there state laws (TX) or just federal law that I need to be aware of?   This rifle is obviously an antique, so not a firearm, but what about the length of the barrel?  
  

You're Winchester, "Trapper", carbine that you show the Cody Letter, which houses the Winchester Factory information, proves that you're firearm left the Factory in 1888, which the ATF, considers by law an Antique firearm. (Pre-1899)

The paper work you have proves it's configuration, according to you're serial number. 

I did send you a PM, earlier, if you click on you're inbox, I can give you more detailed information.

Tony

Bob

Bob