Winchester Collector - Forum: General Discussions & Questions

Bert H. on Winchester and the .280 Ross

Sun, 10 May 2026 00:56:25 +0000

That bolt in the Ross rifle reminds me of the bolt in my Remington Model 742, but it differs in the way it functions.

Bert

steve004 on Winchester and the .280 Ross

Sat, 09 May 2026 22:55:05 +0000

Bill -

It would be the bolt on the left - that is the final position of the bolt head after it has rotated into the receiver ring. It enters horizontally and end up in the vertical position.

To illustrate - here is the bolt making it's way toward the receiver ring:

Here it is starting to enter:

It has now entered the receiver ring and further push forward on the bolt will start to make it turn:

The bolt head is now turn and if you peer in at an angle, you can watch the lugs rotate into place

The bolt head is now fully turned and seated. It is blocked form view. But prior to this is when you can see it turning.

By the way, as I was handling both the M1905 or M-10 bolts, they both snapped shut on me. Also it took me about four times to get the M-10 bolt back in the receiver as I would lightly touch it to the inside of the receiver and SNAP! (It always makes me jump).

martin rabeno on Colorado Collector's Show May 16-17

Sat, 09 May 2026 21:42:04 +0000

I will be there. I have no idea where my table is, but will be hanging with my Colorado gunmaker friends. I will have a nice 73 1st model rifle for sale and two engraved Winchesters displaying. Keeping it simple and easy to transport Looking forward to it. Did it all the time when I lived in Durango Co

Zebulon on Winchester and the .280 Ross

Sat, 09 May 2026 21:27:39 +0000

Steve, I assume the longer bolt on the right illustrates the head extended position.

I'm having trouble visualizing which photo illustrates the locking lugs rotated into locking/firing position.

Ben on Colorado Collector's Show May 16-17

Sat, 09 May 2026 20:26:09 +0000

Hope to see you at the Colorado Collector's gun show next weekend. Greeley, Colorado... just 45 north of Denver. It's a nice venue with good lighting. The focus in on antique, C&R firearms... no black guns... no Beanie Babies, China scopes, candles, or beef jerky. There are always some amazing displays too! Don't miss out!

steve004 on Winchester and the .280 Ross

Sat, 09 May 2026 19:39:19 +0000

Just found this mix of different vintage .280's

steff on Winchester and the .280 Ross

Sat, 09 May 2026 17:04:23 +0000

I'd trade this box for an empty civilian 30-03, .45 ACP, .32 ACP, or .25 ACP box from that era. I've been looking for those forever.

Steff

Bert H. on Winchester and the .280 Ross

Sat, 09 May 2026 16:58:27 +0000

Thanks to all for posting the pictures... they really clear up many questions.

Bert

steve004 on Winchester and the .280 Ross

Sat, 09 May 2026 16:34:53 +0000

Steff -

Thanks for posting the photo of the box - you had the box and I had the cartridge!

Bill -

I heard Halger was very interested in not paying patent royalties. Changing his cartridge from .288 to .284 literally changed the caliber and that was likely consequential form a patent pespective.

Bo -

I think when we think back to the years surrounding the introduction of the .280 Ross, great leaps were made in velocity. What followed terribly behind was bullet construction. Driving poorly constructed bullets at high velocity - while dangerous big game hunting - did produce some loss of animal life but also some loss of human life. The advancements made in bullet construction is really quite remarkable. Particularly the premium bullets than can now be had.

steve004 on Winchester and the .280 Ross

Sat, 09 May 2026 16:03:56 +0000

Here's a photo of two M-10 bolts - with bolt head extended and one with bolt head retracted:

And here's a Model 1905 bolt next to an M-10 bolt:

Both are mouse traps. In fact, one snapped shut when I laid it on the table

steve004 on Winchester and the .280 Ross

Sat, 09 May 2026 15:58:39 +0000

Here's a photo of a WRACO .280 cartridge as well as photos next to a .270 WCF:

steff on Winchester and the .280 Ross

Sat, 09 May 2026 15:36:04 +0000

Hi Bert,

I'm not Steve, and I don't have a cartridge, but I do have an empty box. Maybe that's of interest too?

Best regards from Germany,

Stefan

kevindpm61 on Winchester and the .280 Ross

Sat, 09 May 2026 15:23:40 +0000

Hi Bo. I'm sure that Steve has the answer about the George Grey incident. It is my understanding that the biggest factor in that catastrophic event had to do with bullet failure. I don't think that bullet technology and function was able to keep up with the increased velocity.

Zebulon on Winchester and the .280 Ross

Sat, 09 May 2026 14:34:18 +0000

Steve,

Thanks for remembering the name I couldn't -- Halger. I didn't know they had reduced groove diameter to .284. Either Phil Sharpe or somebody else got some internal ballistics tests run on the 280 Halger after the war. My understanding is (1) the published velocities were created on a typewriter; and (2) in a pressure barrel the breech pressures were hair-raising.

Like women's skirt lengths, the popularity of various sets of external ballistics rises and falls with every generation.

Now thst I am deaf and arthritic, 7/8 ounce 12 gauge loads have become remarkably effective -- something our British cousins knew when the Dodo Bird was still in season.

My father's generation thought the 30 Govt '06 was adequate for the big bears and anything else in America. While still in school, I'd begun to read climbing a tree was safer than hunting Grizzlies with one. A 338 Magnum was the minimum prudence demanded. (I still have no experience in such matters and have no idea. But I do know what high intensity noise did to me.)

It comforts me to know the Fearless Magnum craze started in England and Greater Deutschland (to include Austira) rather than America. If you doubt me, consider the 240 H&H Magnum and, of course, Halger but also some pretty ambitious metrics created by DWM.

Roy Weatherby and his big blasters did not come into this World sui generis. By all accounts a really nice man liked by everyone, he had a grand imagination and a child's delight in new things. Did you know he was interested in photography, model railroading, and ham radio - as well as learning to run mills and lathes and gunsmithing in his garage? That kind of enthusiasm is infectious and with his capacity to make anyone a friend, it made him a salesman sales managers dream about.

Roy's legacy includes my hearing loss, although Elmer Keith gets part of the blame.

I only hope the current craze for long, narrow bullets at moderate velocity with attendant mild blast and recoil, and longer barrels and suppressors, lasts long enough to spare my grandchildren their hearing.

In what time remains to me, I'm going to explore what can be done with a 6.5 x 55 Swedish Mauser cartridge in a 24" 1-10 barrel. And whether I can throttle back a 9 pound Winchester 45-90 Model 1886 enough to.be fun to shoot.

And I'm going to burn through all the 22 long rifle ammo I can afford.

Bo Rich on Winchester and the .280 Ross

Sat, 09 May 2026 14:28:24 +0000

I read that the .280 Ross was not much of a Lion cartridge. This is according to George Grey's account.