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I recently received an original Wm Malcolm scope on a rifle I purchased and since it is not original to the rifle (not factory fitted) I would like to find out a ballpark value so I can dispose of it.
I know almost nothing about the Malcolm scopes and this one does not seem to match the info in Nick Stroebel’s book (or I am missing it).
It is 20.5″ in length with a 3/4″ tube. It has fine crosshairs (which are crisp and intact). The serial number is 4737. No dents in the tube and decent bluing turning to brown in a few spots.
So, can it be dated from the serial number? Which model is it and how can I determine the power? It seems more powerful than a 4x but not more than 12x.
And finally, what is a ballpark value on it?
Thanks in advance for any/all responses.
Best Regards and Merry Christmas!
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
JWA said
I know almost nothing about the Malcolm scopes and this one does not seem to match the info in Nick Stroebel’s book (or I am missing it).
No, Nick missed it, because he could not find the right source to plagiarize, as he did all of his other scope info, errors and all.
This is by the far the most commonly seen of Malcolm scopes, though it’s relation to Wm. Malcolm’s original company in Syracuse is tenuous. After Malcolm’s death in 1890, the company was sold and resold by several (4, I think) successive owners, and after about 1900 was relocated to Auburn, NY, where it operated on a very reduced scale until the beginning of WW II.
These later Malcolms were made in two grades, #1 and #4, #1 being the higher, though I don’t see much difference between the two. Have never seen one higher than 6X. Price of the #1 in the ’30s was midway between a Lyman 5A and 438. Sadly, the serial records have gone the way of all flesh. (Just like Unertl’s and possibly Lyman’s!)
Since most of these are sold on ebay, value always depends on whose bidding; I’d say $350-500.
clarence said
JWA said
I know almost nothing about the Malcolm scopes and this one does not seem to match the info in Nick Stroebel’s book (or I am missing it).
No, Nick missed it, because he could not find the right source to plagiarize, as he did all of his other scope info, errors and all.
This is by the far the most commonly seen of Malcolm scopes, though it’s relation to Wm. Malcolm’s original company in Syracuse is tenuous. After Malcolm’s death in 1890, the company was sold and resold by several (4, I think) successive owners, and after about 1900 was relocated to Auburn, NY, where it operated on a very reduced scale until the beginning of WW II.
These later Malcolms were made in two grades, #1 and #4, #1 being the higher, though I don’t see much difference between the two. Have never seen one higher than 6X. Price of the #1 in the ’30s was midway between a Lyman 5A and 438. Sadly, the serial records have gone the way of all flesh. (Just like Unertl’s and possibly Lyman’s!)
Since most of these are sold on ebay, value always depends on whose bidding; I’d say $350-500.
Clarence, all Lyman scope records are at Parsons Scope Service. They have records on all Lyman scopes. Shipping dates and the original specs. on the power. I think it is, or was, $15 per scope. All mine are lettered. Big Larry
JWA said
I recently received an original Wm Malcolm scope on a rifle I purchased and since it is not original to the rifle (not factory fitted) I would like to find out a ballpark value so I can dispose of it.I know almost nothing about the Malcolm scopes and this one does not seem to match the info in Nick Stroebel’s book (or I am missing it).
It is 20.5″ in length with a 3/4″ tube. It has fine crosshairs (which are crisp and intact). The serial number is 4737. No dents in the tube and decent bluing turning to brown in a few spots.
So, can it be dated from the serial number? Which model is it and how can I determine the power? It seems more powerful than a 4x but not more than 12x.
And finally, what is a ballpark value on it?
Thanks in advance for any/all responses.
Best Regards and Merry Christmas!
clarence saidJWA said
I know almost nothing about the Malcolm scopes and this one does not seem to match the info in Nick Stroebel’s book (or I am missing it).
No, Nick missed it, because he could not find the right source to plagiarize, as he did all of his other scope info, errors and all.
This is by the far the most commonly seen of Malcolm scopes, though it’s relation to Wm. Malcolm’s original company in Syracuse is tenuous. After Malcolm’s death in 1890, the company was sold and resold by several (4, I think) successive owners, and after about 1900 was relocated to Auburn, NY, where it operated on a very reduced scale until the beginning of WW II.
These later Malcolms were made in two grades, #1 and #4, #1 being the higher, though I don’t see much difference between the two. Have never seen one higher than 6X. Price of the #1 in the ’30s was midway between a Lyman 5A and 438. Sadly, the serial records have gone the way of all flesh. (Just like Unertl’s and possibly Lyman’s!)
Since most of these are sold on ebay, value always depends on whose bidding; I’d say $350-500.
That scope would look good on one of your M56’s. Just poke a few holes in the rifle and you will be good to go. Merry Xmas to you my friend. Big Larry
Big Larry said
Clarence, all Lyman scope records are at Parsons Scope Service. They have records on all Lyman scopes. Shipping dates and the original specs. on the power. I think it is, or was, $15 per scope. All mine are lettered. Big Larry
Larry, That was true before Gil Parsons died, but when his irresponsible son took over, the business went to hell in a handbasket. The son seems to have gone into hiding to escape the irate owners of scopes sent in for work he never did. Friend of mine who knew Gil and the family well told me those records are now in the possession of Gill’s elderly widow. Same friend tried to buy them, but she didn’t want to sell, who knows why. This is the way such documents end up being lost permanently.
Checking a late Malcolm catalog I have, I was surprised to see the #1 was available up to 10X. Scope of that power with such a small objective would have to have a very narrow field, compared to a lower power.
That’s a sad story. I fondly remember my long talks with Gil. Especially about Feckers. Big Larry
clarence said
JWA said
I know almost nothing about the Malcolm scopes and this one does not seem to match the info in Nick Stroebel’s book (or I am missing it).
No, Nick missed it, because he could not find the right source to plagiarize, as he did all of his other scope info, errors and all.
This is by the far the most commonly seen of Malcolm scopes, though it’s relation to Wm. Malcolm’s original company in Syracuse is tenuous. After Malcolm’s death in 1890, the company was sold and resold by several (4, I think) successive owners, and after about 1900 was relocated to Auburn, NY, where it operated on a very reduced scale until the beginning of WW II.
These later Malcolms were made in two grades, #1 and #4, #1 being the higher, though I don’t see much difference between the two. Have never seen one higher than 6X. Price of the #1 in the ’30s was midway between a Lyman 5A and 438. Sadly, the serial records have gone the way of all flesh. (Just like Unertl’s and possibly Lyman’s!)
Since most of these are sold on ebay, value always depends on whose bidding; I’d say $350-500.
Thanks Clarence,
I appreciate the info, that was exactly what I was looking for!
I am curious about the scope power, it does have a fairly small field of view. How can I determine or measure the scope’s magnification power?
Best Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
Big Larry said
That scope would look good on one of your M56’s. Just poke a few holes in the rifle and you will be good to go. Merry Xmas to you my friend. Big Larry
Hee hee, I took that scope off of a 1926 Winchester Model 57, it was a good match with the 57 for the time period but based on the sloppy holes “poked” in the barrel and receiver for the mounts I am certain it was not mounted by Winchester so I have no qualms separating the two items. It is a bit sad because the 1926 M57 is in pretty nice shape otherwise with lots of blue but more importantly it is in .22 short which is even more rare than the M56 in .22 short. It was probably a heck of a squirrel gun in it’s day though.
Merry Christmas to you too!
Best Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
JWA said
How can I determine or measure the scope’s magnification power?
Best Regards,
No quick and easy way I know of, sorry to say. I made a split wooden block shaped to sandwich a scope of unknown power beside one of known power, the block screwed to a camera tripod. You obviously need a few scopes in different powers to make this kind of comparison, but if you do, a fair estimate of the unknown power can be made.
Many books on optics describe the method of looking at a brick wall with one eye while at the same time looking with the other eye through the scope. You’re supposed to be able to superimpose one image on top of the other, and count the number of bricks seen through the scope compared with the number seen by the naked eye. If you count only half as many through the scope, the power is 2X, and so on. The mental concentration required to do this, I don’t posses, which is why I made up that wooden block.
That’s a fine looking scope, Jeff. On auction, it might surprise you it what it will fetch.
James
jwm94 said
That’s a fine looking scope, Jeff. On auction, it might surprise you it what it will fetch.James
I am not so sure James. Scopes are a hard sell. Even the rarer ones. However, I am the kind of guy that gets stupid when bidding for something I really want. I have sold off most all my scopes, but still have a few nice ones. One in particular is my Fecker # 619. A total factory custom made scope. I discussed this scope with Mr. Gil Parsons. He had one near like it with ser.# 333. I paid over $1,000 for that scope and doubt there is anyone around, other than me, to pay so much. It is a good 98%+ too with perfect optics. I just saved a few for my M52 collection. Big Larry
Big Larry said
I paid over $1,000 for that scope and doubt there is anyone around, other than me, to pay so much.
Larry, When I was at the height of my Fecker interest a dozen yrs ago, madly trying to build up my knowledge about them, I might have come close to that, but in an auction, you’d have been the winner. What surprises me about that price is that 99% of potential Fecker buyers would have been looking for the later scopes with larger objectives and higher powers, and would not have been willing to pay a premium for the low ser. no. I would (then, not now), but I ain’t normal.
clarence said
Big Larry said
I paid over $1,000 for that scope and doubt there is anyone around, other than me, to pay so much.Larry, When I was at the height of my Fecker interest a dozen yrs ago, madly trying to build up my knowledge about them, I might have come close to that, but in an auction, you’d have been the winner. What surprises me about that price is that 99% of potential Fecker buyers would have been looking for the later scopes with larger objectives and higher powers, and would not have been willing to pay a premium for the low ser. no. I would (then, not now), but I ain’t normal.
I am quite sure I paid the premium for the low number, uncatalogued scope. No matter as I doubt I will ever sell it.
The Fecker that has alluded me all these years is the 1 1/2″. I have had most all of the standard scopes. I have never seen a 1 1/2″er for sale. I would still buy one if I saw one. Thanks, Big Larry
Big Larry said
I am not so sure James. Scopes are a hard sell. Even the rarer ones. However, I am the kind of guy that gets stupid when bidding for something I really want. I have sold off most all my scopes, but still have a few nice ones. One in particular is my Fecker # 619. A total factory custom made scope. I discussed this scope with Mr. Gil Parsons. He had one near like it with ser.# 333. I paid over $1,000 for that scope and doubt there is anyone around, other than me, to pay so much. It is a good 98%+ too with perfect optics. I just saved a few for my M52 collection. Big Larry
Big Larry,
You are correct about them being a hard sell, at least during the past few years. There was a time that I could have sold my Winchester A-5 USMC sniper scope for about 3 grand give or take a few hundred, but by the time I did sell it, I was about eight hundred shy of that, and now, I see them go for around 1500, if that. The good thing about Jeff’s scope is that he has the Malcolm mounts, and if he has the screws and end caps, that will be a big plus, too, as you would know.
Low numbered Fecker’s are really difficult to come by! That’s a good looking scope!
James
James. Speaking of USMC scopes, have you seen what a USMC marked Unertl is going for these days? Well over $6,000. I once owned #1002, that is the second one made. They started the numbers at 1,000. I bought that scope at the old Great Western Gun Show for $125. Big Larry
jwm94 said
Big Larry,
You are correct about them being a hard sell, at least during the past few years. There was a time that I could have sold my Winchester A-5 USMC sniper scope for about 3 grand give or take a few hundred, but by the time I did sell it, I was about eight hundred shy of that, and now, I see them go for around 1500, if that.
James
You’re talking about an A5 in the USMC-modified Mann-Neidner mounts?
Big Larry said
The Fecker that has alluded me all these years is the 1 1/2″. I have had most all of the standard scopes. I have never seen a 1 1/2″er for sale. I would still buy one if I saw one. Thanks, Big Larry
Larry, Would you be thinking about the 1-5/8″ model? That was the largest, and only in production a few yrs. I’ve seen a fair number of the 1-1/2″ models; in fact I have one, in the seldom-seen Fecker wooden box.
Anyone else on here research the USMC A5 history? That is one topic that I really am interested in and always willing to exchange ideas on. I’ve been searching in the archives at Cody and also at the National Archives, and found a lot of unpublishd documents on the A5’s. But my true love will probably always be the Rifle (Sniper’s) Caliber .30 M1903A1, W/Telescope, Sighting, Unertl 8X, so Big Larry will always be one of my hero’s. 🙂
But I agree with James, the Mann Niedner conversion A5’s have really dropped in price. I have one that I bought years ago for $1100 and I thought I got a huge score, but nowadays I don’t know if it would bring much more than that at auction.
Without making any special effort to search for them, beyond looking at ebay scope listings, I ran across two of the Mann-Neidner mounts not described as such, that I was able to buy for about $250 ea.; this was 10-15 yrs ago, when I was a doing a lot of ebay cruising. Sold both of them on ebay for $500-600 ea., after re-listing them as Mann-Neidners. Point being that an A5 in these mounts is not necessarily an original USMC A5.
clarence said
Point being that an A5 in these mounts is not necessarily an original USMC A5.
That is a really good point. Also Niedner did not stop converting rifles and scopes after he was basically fired by the Marines in June 1917. So that factors into the equation as well.
It’s just like now, many of the civilian contractors and retired Marine Armorers who built sniper rifles for the Marines, are building exact copies for the commercial markets.
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