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Have a Model 1886, 45-70 with a Winchester express front sight. It has a Gold bead. I think it is a “Semi-Jack” as it is round but I am not sure. See photos. The Winchester Book gives give the numbers 3,4,6,20,31,37 and 39 as designations but fails to tell you anything about the characteristic of the various designations ( ivory ,gold, large,small bead ETC). Not a big help. 
Has anyone broken the code on this? What is the likely designation of this sight?
Cheers
Kirk
Are you looking in the Madis sight book?
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
37 (semi-jack) & 39 (jack) are Lyman numbers; don’t know how you could tell them apart without seeing them side by side.
Bob- Not the sight book “The Winchester Book” , page 576.
Clarence- Are these numbers for the Gold bead sight?
Cheers
Kirk
Kirk Fitzgerald said
Bob- Not the sight book “The Winchester Book” , page 576.Clarence- Are these numbers for the Gold bead sight?
Cheers
Kirk
Actually a little confusing because some but not all are illustrated in the Lyman catalogs I have. #20 is an ivory bead jack sight, #28, ivory semi-jack. Beads unspecified on the 37 & 39. Then there’s also a #24 jack, #32 semi-jack, beads unspecified. Too much of a good thing, I’m beginning to think.
Diameter of the semi is 3/32″, jack 1/8″.
Clarence,
It looks like you have a Lyman sight. They made them with 1/8, 3/32, 5/64, 1/16 bead diameters in gold, silver, ivory and red. Per the sight book the #20 was called the Full Jack and says ” This was the usual sight for night hunting with a ‘Jack Light’ introduced in the mid 1880’s” I have a Lyman catalog and if yours is a 3/32 diameter bead then you have a #28. #3 is 1/16, #28 is 3/32 semi-jack and #20 is 1/8″ jack.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Guys, Think this is what I have so far a #20 and #28 are ivory beads #20 being a Jack and #28 being a Half Jack. The rest of the numbers have to do with the size of the bead and not the color.
Cheers
Kirk
November 7, 2015
Offline
Brownells’ site has good illustrations of the current production Marble sights. Not sure how they compare with Winchester’s model designations.
Kirk Fitzgerald said
Guys, Think this is what I have so far a #20 and #28 are ivory beads #20 being a Jack and #28 being a Half Jack. The rest of the numbers have to do with the size of the bead and not the color.Cheers
Kirk
Here is a couple clips from the Lyman catalog. From what I have found the #3 and #20 were patented on Oct. 6 1885, I would presume the #28 was the same date as well so these sights would have been available for the 86 from the beginning of production.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
1873man said
From what I have found the #3 and #20 were patented on Oct. 6 1885, I would presume the #28 was the same date as well so these sights would have been available for the 86 from the beginning of production.
Bob
Bob, That ’85 pat. originally covered only the #3 & #4 sights–it referred specifically to the method of fitting the ivory into the metal, as ivory had of course been used in sights long before. The #20 came along some years later, but it would take a collection of early catalogs to pin down exactly its date of introduction; its listed in the undated, but c. 1900, Lyman catalog, but that’s the oldest one I have.
Clarence,
I got the patent date from a Lyman catalog, it show the #4 as Aug 31 1886
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
1873man said
Clarence,I got the patent date from a Lyman catalog, it show the #4 as Aug 31 1886
Bob
It would be odd that the #4 got ahead of the #3, except that numbers weren’t assigned until several years after production had begun. Originally, #4 was called the “Patent Ivory Front Hunting Sight,” and #3 was “Patent Ivory Bead Front Sight.” This info from the invaluable Lyman Centennial Journal.
clarence said
It would be odd that the #4 got ahead of the #3, except that numbers weren’t assigned until several years after production had begun. Originally, #4 was called the “Patent Ivory Front Hunting Sight,” and #3 was “Patent Ivory Bead Front Sight.” This info from the invaluable Lyman Centennial Journal.
#3 is ahead of #4 according to the patent dates in the catalog. Here is a copy of the sights from the Lyman catalog with the patent dates.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
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