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Peter,
That case is at the gun show in my basement.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Does anyone know if the vintage Lyman No.1, 1A and 2A tang sights were produced and sold concurrently or in what years were each discontinued? Would it be period correct to find a second style No. 1 (hairspring and flip down aperture) on a rifle produced in 1917?
Bert,
In your opinion, what dollar figure would you place on an early Lyman tang sight such as yours?
My goodness Bob…I have never seen so many nice old sights in one place…ever! No wonder there is none for sale…you have em all.
1873man said
Bert,I would have to look this weekend when I get home. I just happen to have some sight pictures on my laptop I took a while ago.
I spoke too soon. I just looked and I have another view of the sights. The one in the back has a patent date on the top of the base, the middle one does not look like it has anything and the front one looks like it might.
Bob
Wow. What a collection…
WACA Member. CFM Member. NRA Lifer.
mrcvs said
Bert,In your opinion, what dollar figure would you place on an early Lyman tang sight such as yours?
I am not sure, as I have never given it any thought. That old Lyman No. 1 tang sight has been on the rifle since January 20th, 1887. In that respect, it is irreplaceable. Monetarily, I would pay a hefty sum for one like it if I needed to replace it… at least $500.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Rustyjack said
Does anyone know if the vintage Lyman No.1, 1A and 2A tang sights were produced and sold concurrently or in what years were each discontinued? Would it be period correct to find a second style No. 1 (hairspring and flip down aperture) on a rifle produced in 1917?
For a 1917 vintage Winchester, I would expect to find a 1A or 2A only. I doubt that the older No. 1 or No. 2 sights were still being made after 1908.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
1873man said
Peter,That case is at the gun show in my basement.
Bob
Great looking collection Bob. Please give me a call if the gun show will be open for viewing
Brad
Brad,
If you get down to the Fond du lac show you can stop in and I will give you the tour.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Rustyjack said
Does anyone know if the vintage Lyman No.1, 1A and 2A tang sights were produced and sold concurrently or in what years were each discontinued? Would it be period correct to find a second style No. 1 (hairspring and flip down aperture) on a rifle produced in 1917?
Not trying to be a jerk Bert, and maybe I’m misunderstanding the question.
If you are talking about regular, second style (variation) No.1 and No.2 sights without the lock and A suffix here, they were cataloged by Winchester until 1920 or later at least and cataloged and sold concurrently by Lyman with 1A and 2A sights for many years. I’m not sure when they quit making them. This is from 1942:
Brad Dunbar said
Rustyjack said
Does anyone know if the vintage Lyman No.1, 1A and 2A tang sights were produced and sold concurrently or in what years were each discontinued? Would it be period correct to find a second style No. 1 (hairspring and flip down aperture) on a rifle produced in 1917?
Not trying to be a jerk Bert, and maybe I’m misunderstanding the question.
If you are talking about regular, second style (variation) No.1 and No.2 sights without the lock and A suffix here, they were cataloged by Winchester until 1920 or later at least and cataloged and sold concurrently by Lyman with 1A and 2A sights for many years. I’m not sure when they quit making them. This is from 1942:
Brad,
No, you were not misunderstanding the question, and the information you posted proves that my thoughts on this subject may be in error. That stated, I do have to question why Lyman would have continued to manufacture both styles. Was there really a demand for both a No. 1(2) and a 1A(2A) at the same time? In my experience, very few of the older style Lyman tang sights are found after circa 1910, with the “A” style being standard sight from circa 1910 through 1942 (when Winchester eliminated the tang sight mounting holes).
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Not sure why. Worked? Simple? .50 less in 1942? Still nicer than a lot of newer stuff.
I’d have to think about it I guess.
Brad
I’m forwarding a email I got from Will Giaconia:
Because I've collected 73s, I've studied all the variations in sights as they progressed from exposed spring to thick base to thin base, Lyman's and all the sub variations in between, etc. Here's what I've found for the Lyman sights, along with my rough estimates on the timeline. I'm pretty confident in it +\- a little. And Bert's sight would fit into my timeline. He has a "second variation" Lyman thin base sight, by my naming system below.
(1) First you have the Winchester thick base with the Lyman stem. This has a couple variations itself, but I'll ignore those for this overview. ('79-'85).
(2) Then you have what I've found is the "first variation" Lyman thin base, which has the exact same stem as goes in a thick base (externally at least). Note it has the same upper and lower section to the stem, and just a very small square cutout in the top of the base for the small protruding lower radius of the stem to rest in while folded down. ('85)
(3) Then comes the "second variation" Lyman thin base, which again has the exact same stem as an early thick base, but the base has a slightly larger and more "egg shaped" cutout in the top of the base for the radius of the stem to rest in while folded down. The later the sight, the larger the cutout gets. This is in preparation for the next variation of stem. ('85-'86)
(4) Next comes the "third variation" that has a new stem. It still has the "finely swirled" vs knurled top section, but the base of the stem is the new design that would become the permanent Lyman stem. As a result, Lyman had to elongate and widen the size of the cutout in the top of the base to accommodate the new stem base. This is the same typed cutout as the "second variation" above but gets bigger. Also the swirled part of the stem gets shorter to account for the longer lower stem section, this keeping the same overall stem height. ('86-'87)
(5) next comes the "fourth variation," which still has the "egg shaped" cutout in the top of the base, but has gone to the typical knurled stem top with the typical stem base ('88 through maybe early 90s...I've never seen a 'D' coded sight with the egg shaped cutout, and the 'D' came out in 1892).
(6) Finally you have the "fifth variation" which is the same as the fourth, other than the "egg shaped" cutout has gone to the rectangular cutout that would become standard for the rest of production.
There are other subtle variations, like the hollow vs solid spring (earlier sights had hollow springs, which you can see in the pic you posted). The base patent marking seems to go away with the knurled stem. The edge bevels are softer on earlier sights, etc, etc.
Here's the pic, feel free to post as you see fit. I lined up the sights in order, close up pic so the differences are clear. All the sights are for a 73 except the last one which is a DA I think. But the cutouts are fairly standard at this time so still works as an example.
Will
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
My tang sight, that was the subject of the initial post, looks exactly like the fifth variation on the far right with the rectangular cut out. Mine has a “D” on the bottom of the base, and the JAN 28-79-MAY6-84 PAT dates stamped on the stem base right below the knurling. I don’t see any other markings/stampings on the sight. Just wonder…does the sight on the far right have the stamping on the stem base like mine? Good pictures and thanks for the post Bob. Peter
Thanks Bob for posting, I couldn’t figure out how to post a photo from my iPad. Hopefully it helps shed some light on the earlier sight variations.
Peter, the sight on the right is marked “DA” underneath, and has the tiny patent markings around the base of the stem.
Will
Will,
That is great information, thanks for taking the time to forward it for posting here for us to enjoy and Bob, thank you for posting it.
Best Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
Will, sounds like your far rt one marked “DA” and mine marked “D” are the same vintage, just for different calibers. Thanks, Peter
Bob & Will,
First, thank you very much for the information, descriptions, and the picture… they really help explain the subtle details and changes that occurred.
The sight on my Model 1885 rifle is identical to the sight pictured 3rd from the left.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
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