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U.s Navy marked 1894 carbine?
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Troutdale, OR
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March 15, 2015 - 7:02 am
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I’ve never seen nor heard of any of these being used by the U.S. Navy.  Has anyone ever seen these markings before?  Are they legit?  There seem to be so many fakes out there…

http://www.gunsinternational.com/Rare-US-Navy-Winchester-Model-1894-Carbine-manufactured-in-1908.cfm?gun_id=100538662

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March 15, 2015 - 7:37 am
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Don,

The U.S. Navy to the best of my knowledge, never purchased Winchester Model 1894 Carbines.

Bert

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March 15, 2015 - 3:47 pm
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The stamping on the side of the  receiver looks like it was put on later in the guns life not when the gun was new.

Bob

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March 15, 2015 - 6:55 pm
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Don,

 

        As a general rule the longer the description when a gun is for sale the bigger the lie.

 

  john K.Kiss

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March 16, 2015 - 7:07 pm
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Thanks guys.  I appreciate your feedback.  It seems that when it comes to military marked rifles, there are way more fakes out there than originals.

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March 17, 2015 - 1:54 am
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Don,

Oddly enough, the number of fake Spruce Guns is relatively small in comparison to those that are real.

Authentic = 191

Fake = 12

There are (5) other serial numbers that we can not verify (yet) that might also be authentic or could be fakes.

Bert

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March 17, 2015 - 2:48 am
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Here is a US anchor stamp

US anchor stamp

Bob

After looking closer at the stamps they are similar but not a exact match. The ring on the anchor on the gun is above the short cross bar and the stamp on the web site is right on the cross bar.

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March 17, 2015 - 3:23 am
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Bob,

I am impressed with with your research. You will not let a dogs tail go.

Walter

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March 17, 2015 - 3:58 pm
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I too am very impressed.  I just sent the seller an e-mail with a link to this forum post.  If he has any conscience whatsoever, he’ll pull the fraudulent gun from Guns International.

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March 17, 2015 - 5:55 pm
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So one guy says they don’t exist, another one says 191 were issued, the seller says 24 were isssued, everything rare is called a fake these days. Can anyone provide real proof the one for sale is fake?

I posted up pics of a North Korean gun once and everyone called it fake, then sent me pms wanting to buy it.

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March 17, 2015 - 6:00 pm
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Bert H. said

Don,

Oddly enough, the number of fake Spruce Guns is relatively small in comparison to those that are real.

Authentic = 191

Fake = 12

There are (5) other serial numbers that we can not verify (yet) that might also be authentic or could be fakes.

Bert


Bert H. said

Don,

The U.S. Navy to the best of my knowledge, never purchased Winchester Model 1894 Carbines.

Bert

 well which is it? or are you saying the Spruce Guns do exist but weren’t issued to the US NAVY?

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March 17, 2015 - 6:50 pm
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It looks like it originally sold for $2900 from New Market Arms. Here is a link to New Market Arms, you can see all the photos including the ones that are not on GI by clicking on PHOTOS.

Navy Gun

Bob

I edited my previous post about the stamp. After looking closer at the stamps they are similar but not a exact match but I still believe the stamps on the left side of the receiver were put on later.

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March 18, 2015 - 12:22 am
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Hi

I agree with Bob on the stamping. If this is real, where are other examples? In 60+ years this is the only one? Did the US Navy only order one? There are guys out there that are good at faking military stock markings.

Walter

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March 18, 2015 - 12:52 am
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wallyb said

Hi

I agree with Bob on the stamping. If this is real, where are other examples? In 60+ years this is the only one? Did the US Navy only order one? There are guys out there that are good at faking military stock markings.

Walter

I read the ad and the seller said he believes that is it’s origin is one of the Spruce guns, it’s not claimed as a fact. There are other uses of the 1894 by the US Navy listed. I think river boat and submarine shore patrol. I’m pretty sure I have seen the actual war footage of sailors coming off a sub with 1894s because it was used in a movie back in the 50’s.

I’m thinking about making him an offer. Unless someone can disprove it’s authenticity.

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March 18, 2015 - 1:16 am
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tomkent said

Bert H. said

Don,

Oddly enough, the number of fake Spruce Guns is relatively small in comparison to those that are real.

Authentic = 191

Fake = 12

There are (5) other serial numbers that we can not verify (yet) that might also be authentic or could be fakes.

Bert


Bert H. said

Don,

The U.S. Navy to the best of my knowledge, never purchased Winchester Model 1894 Carbines.

Bert

 well which is it? or are you saying the Spruce Guns do exist but weren’t issued to the US NAVY?

You quite obviously do not know what a “Spruce Gun” is… they were all issued to the U.S. Army in late 1917… well after the subject FAKE was manufactured.

My reply was to the comment about the alleged number of “fake” U.S. marked Model 1894s.

Bert

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March 18, 2015 - 1:20 am
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tomkent said

Bert H. said

Don,

Oddly enough, the number of fake Spruce Guns is relatively small in comparison to those that are real.

Authentic = 191

Fake = 12

There are (5) other serial numbers that we can not verify (yet) that might also be authentic or could be fakes.

Bert


Bert H. said

Don,

The U.S. Navy to the best of my knowledge, never purchased Winchester Model 1894 Carbines.

Bert

 well which is it? or are you saying the Spruce Guns do exist but weren’t issued to the US NAVY?

Exactly… Spruce Guns were issued to the U.S. Army, not the U.S. Navy.

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March 18, 2015 - 1:22 am
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wallyb said

Hi

I agree with Bob on the stamping. If this is real, where are other examples? In 60+ years this is the only one? Did the US Navy only order one? There are guys out there that are good at faking military stock markings.

Walter

The U.S. Navy did not ever (to the best of my knowledge) ever order any Winchester Model 1894 Carbines.

Bert (U.S. Navy retired, 1979 – 2000)

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March 18, 2015 - 1:47 am
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tomkint said

I’m thinking about making him an offer. Unless someone can disprove it’s authenticity.

With any gun that has history, you want iron clad documentation that proves it authenticity without a doubt. With this gun you have absolutely nothing in writing to say this gun is what the seller is claiming. You might be 100% satisfied it legit but you have to think of when you go to sell it someday. Now you might buy it on spec with the hopes of authenticating it but your going to have to get the price down a lot.

Bob

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March 18, 2015 - 1:48 am
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Well, I’m retired from the Navy too, doesn’t mean squat. I was planning a trip to the Cody Museum. I’m going to try and buy that gun and take it with me.

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March 18, 2015 - 2:04 am
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Hi

I would not touch it at any price.

Walter

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