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Hello,
I inherited my grandfather’s Pre War Model 70 in .22 Hornet, s/n 13xxx, among others. Winchester pegs the manufacture at 1937. He bought it for garden-eating varmints, but I think he barely used it. He was an active quail and waterfowl hunter, but I think he had a soft spot for taking out mammals. It’s a beautiful piece. The blueing is great, with the exception of the magazine hatch. The bore and chamber look pretty much new. It appears to have non-factory drilling for a scope, which I understand reduces value. Their are two sets of two holes. To those who know, please take a look at the pics and share your thoughts.
Thanks!
Very nice rifle in my favorite model 70 caliber! To answer your question, the 2 holes in the side of receiver are factory drilled/tapped for an optional receiver sight. The 2 holes drilled in front of the rear sight, which attach the scope block are not factory. The holes in the front top of receiver ring are factory. Apparently someone has added an external adjustment target scope like a Unertl or Lyman at some point. This was a common practice in the day. The good news is the rear bridge of receiver has not been drilled/tapped as was commonly the case on pre wars. The extra 2 holes in barrel will have a detrimental effect on value, but not as much as if the rear bridge was drilled/tapped also.
Beautiful rifle, enjoy………
Steve
seewin said
The good news is the rear bridge of receiver has not been drilled/tapped as was commonly the case on pre wars. The extra 2 holes in barrel will have a detrimental effect on value, but not as much as if the rear bridge was drilled/tapped also.
Can’t help wondering why two non-factory holes would be less detrimental than one? The one, I’m thinking, that would have been needed to attach the most commonly used hunting scope mount, the Redfield Junior.
Probably because the 2 holes are repairable in the barrel, while those in the action are near impossible to repair correctly. Also, the front holes if not repaired, can be neatly plugged. Pretty tough to do that with a ribbed surface on the rear bridge of action.
Steve
So, in what year (if any) did Winchester begin drilling the rear receivers of mod 70 Hornets for scope mounts?? I’ve seen a few from around the late ’40s and early 50’s that seam to have factory drilled and tapped. Could those all be after market? Thanks!!
The publicized date for drilling/tapping rear bridge was 1946. These actions were called “Transition” actions and were made from approximately 1947 to 1948. They start around s/n 60XXX, depending on caliber. These actions had the later style smooth top surface on rear bridge, but carried over the “clover leaf” tang from the pre wars.
Steve
Thanks Seewin!!! Seems to me I knew that at some point but forgot!!! What about sling swivels and lugs? Were they always standard on the 70’s, or is there a date which they appeared. Again, seems to me that some Model 70 have them, and some don’t (particularly with the Hornets). Of course I could me mistaking…..
Sling swivels have always been standard on all pre 64 model 70’s. Of course the Super Grades used a different style which was removable, while the standard rifles used a non-removable screw-in style. Target & Bull guns used a different swivel as well. For these models, the rear swivel was inletted for swivel base and retained by 2 wood screws. The front swivel was 1-1/4″ wide and was screwed into front bottom of forend. On target model/ Bull guns, there was a 3rd swivel attached to the adjustable handstop, just to the rear of front swivel.
Steve
I have a Pre-war 22 Hornet in a carbine. It has a real nice piece of wood and no holes in the rear bridge. I had to look a long while to find a vintage scope to go on it. It is a real nice gun…
No, it is not the correct sight. It should have a Winchester 22G, w/elevator. Also, wood appears to have been refinished at some point. Take a close look at buttplate, it is very rough in comparison to balance of rifle. These are very poor pictures that show very little detail. This is definitely one I would need to see in person before purchasing.
Steve
Thanks! I was thinking the same. Barrel condition is also a concern. Would definitely need to see in person. I was hoping for the best since the price is reasonable.
Another concern with Hornets, is the possibility of a rechamber to a 22 K Hornet. This was a common modification, and many were simply rechambered and never restamped. I always carry a K hornet empty case with me when Hornet shopping!
Steve
Trying to educate myself as to values, etc. before I buy a much coveted (to me) Winchester Hornet. This listing has been on GB for a while now. I’m surprised it hasn’t sold. Price seems reasonable – considering its a supergrade. Would the peep sights have been a factory option or are they an after market addition thus invalidating the “all original” claim?
Foxfire-
The photos are insufficient, but I do not see any glaring red flags on the GB listing.
As for your question about sights. The Lyman 48WJS is period correct but an aftermarket addition. As I recall, the factory option for a Lyman 48 receiver sight was dropped in 1950 (all those catalog symbols deleted). While I’m sure one could still order a Lyman 48WJS on a M70 from the factory, by 1952 (when that rifle was made) it would have to have been special ordered. In any event, when M70s had factory installed Lyman 48 sights, the Win 22G rear sight was omitted and a Lyman 12S slot blank installed in the barrel dovetail.
The good news would be that by 1947 the revised ‘half block’ Lyman 48WJS did not require stock alterations to install. If the stock on a post ’46 M70 has been cut for a ‘full block’ Lyman 48 then it’s almost certainly not a factory installation.
FWIW… I have a 1950 SG 22 HORNET my Dad picked up years (decades) ago from the original purchaser. It has a half block Lyman 48WJS sight on it like in the GB photo. The rifle came with the empty Lyman sight box (containing the original Win 22G sight) and a half-full box of 22 HORNET ammo (the missing shells representing the total number of times the rifle had been fired since leaving the factory). About as close to “test fired only” as it’s possible to find – except for the owner installed receiver sight.
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
Louis Luttrell said
About as close to “test fired only” as it’s possible to find – except for the owner installed receiver sight.
First owner, mounting the Lyman suggests, was probably not a very serious shooter/hunter; otherwise, mounting a good scope would have been the first thing he did–especially with a gun chambered for any kind of varmint cartridge!
Clarence-
I hear you!!! My Dad bought the rifle back when I was away at grad school so I never met the original owner. I’m just repeating the ‘story’ the way I heard it from my Dad. The rifle was listed in the local ‘Valley Trader’ in the Shenandoah Valley of VA and my Dad drove over to WVA to meet up with the guy. He was an older gent (as one might guess since this was the mid-80s and the seller bought the rifle circa ’51). I do have the ammo/sight boxes that came along with the gun, but the story is ‘hearsay’…
Cheers,
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
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