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Just acquired a Low Wall made in 1893, 25 W.C.F., 28″ #2 barrel. The wood is decent but had more than one amateurish lacquer coats applied over the years. Once could even see faint traces of paintbrush strokes. The three sights were an abysmal miss match of spare parts.
The buttstock at the wrist has warped/spread to where the right side protrudes almost 3/32″ from the metal while the left side is flush with the tang and receiver. Over the years I’ve seen numerous pictures of High and Low Walls with a special bolt through the wood at the tang. (Merz has had the exact same Low Wall (in much better condition) for sale for about 2 years now.) I’m assuming this bolt is to draw the wood tight against the receiver in cases where the wood has warped. This appears not to be a problem with other Winchester models as their butt stocks have a lip that fits inside the receiver, thus preventing warping.
My question is: does anyone out there know if this is a common problem and is it fixable without using a bolt?
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
Here are two internet photos of Low Wall repaired wrists.
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
The stock does not actually “warp”, and it has nothing to do with “a lip that fits inside the receiver”. What actually happens, is that the stock is split/cracked internally (in the thin area that separates the upper and lower tang channels). It can be (and should be) repaired with glue and clamps. Putting a bolt through the wrist of the stock is what “Bubba” the amateur does.
Just in case you are not aware, your low-wall was factory chambered for the 25-20 Single Shot (25-20 S.S.) cartridge. It is not chambered for the 25-20 WCF (repeater) cartridge.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Interesting reply. Gotta agree on the wood and love the “Bubba” part. There is some separation along the grain vertically and a prior attempt to repair it with bedding compound, probably acraglass. There is also some slight outward curvature just before the wood meets the receiver. Considered sending it to the Stockfixrs but the rifle isn’t worth much and the stock already had epoxy in some of he splits.
I suspect your comment about it being a 25-20 SS from the factory is due to the 1893 DOM but according to “Cartridges Of The World” the 25 W.C.F. was introduced in 1893 according to some experts or 1895 according to other experts. At any rate, my barrel is a 25-20 W.C.F.
While formulating this post I did some research and came across your most enlightening 10/29/2014 post on the ASSRA forum. Kudos on your work! So now I wonder, what is it I have? I grabbed a fresh 25-20 W.C.F. round and it chambered nicely. Since this round has a larger diameter at the base than the 25-20 SS. it would not have chambered if it was a SS.
During its 122 year life it could have been re-barreled at some point. The barrel looks authentic but the receiver has been reblued, and the lever and lower tang have been re-color case hardened.
Whatever it is that I got, it is a relatively cheap toy and I’m going to play with it. And thanks for the 25-20 education.
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
More than likely, somebody reamed the chamber to 25-20 WCF dimensions. The barrel marking and the date of manufacture positively identify it as originally being chambered for the 25-20 S.S. cartridge. The 25-20 WCF was introduced in the year 1895 (for the Model 1892). The Model 1892 warehouse ledger records confirm that it was not available until 1895 (early in the year).
Because the 25-20 WCF cartridge head spaces on the rim, it is a relatively easy conversion to make from 25-20 S.S., but it does not result in optimal accuracy, as the bullet has to jump a substantial distance before it engages the bore throat and rifling.
I have collected and studied the Model 1885 for the past 35-years, and have written a fair bit about them in the past 15-years or so (in preparation for the reference book I am working on). One of my biggest research projects was completing a comprehensive survey of all the calibers & cartridges that Winchester chambered in the Model 1885. I have more than 400 photos of the various caliber markings, and in the survey, I know the exact production number for each cartridge. Over the next several years, I intend to publish a series of articles covering the various production statistics for the Model 1885.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
January 26, 2011
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A serial number search might be interesting to see. Maybe it was one of those receivers that sat around for many years and was assembled as a compete rifle after the 25-20 WCF cartridge was available…….or was just simply re-barreled later in its life.
~Gary~
25-20 W.C.F. Mystery Solved (Probably)
As stated earlier, most of the metal on this Low Wall has been refinished. I noticed that the muzzle was blued and, since Winchester did not blue the ends of their rifles, I took some Blue and Rust Remover and wiped the muzzle end clean. Once I had a shiny muzzle end it became clear that the bore has been re-lined. That also explains why the bore is so sharp after more than a century.
This additional information now squares with Bert’s observations on the 25-20 SS.
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
Mystery solved indeed! The barrel has definitely been relined. It should make a really fine shooter, especially if you reload for it. There are some really fine .257 bullets available with superb ballistic coefficients that will shoot fantastically in a single shot rifle.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
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