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Hello guys,
The Model 61 and Model 1892 research surveys continue to expand even after +5 years of working on them. Somebody will ask a little question and then I start getting emails asking more about something I have not been tracking and before long the Excel spread sheet has a new column and I am scrambling to play catch up and capture more data on rifles that I have not looked at in years. So I need some help regarding the muzzle face on the non octagon barreled Model 61’s. This should be limited to the first 50,000 rifles based on what data I have so far. Is the muzzle face cut perfectly flat on your rifle(s) or is it crowned? Please list your SN and the style of muzzle.
Thanks so much for the help
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
Michael,
I have a pre-war round barrel model 61, s,l,lr serial number 37520 and the muzzle is cut flat, and in the white.
Al
tionesta1 said
Michael,I have a pre-war round barrel model 61, s,l,lr serial number 37520 and the muzzle is cut flat, and in the white.
Al
Thanks Al,
I already had the rifle in my data but did not have the muzzle face information. I appreciate it!
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
Hi Michael,
Model 61 serial #38997, round barrel, S, L & LR, flat muzzle face, short forend. Barrel date is “38”.
It is British import marked and you probably already saw it on Gunbroker but I thought the barrel date might help.
Stay dry.
Best Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
JWA said
Hi Michael,Model 61 serial #38997, round barrel, S, L & LR, flat muzzle face, short forend. Barrel date is “38”.
It is British import marked and you probably already saw it on Gunbroker but I thought the barrel date might help.
Stay dry.
Best Regards,
Thanks for the barrel date. I had seen the rifle on GB.
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
Michael,
SN 38651 and 39637 are standard S, L and LR short fore end models and both have the flat muzzle. I think you have the rest of the info in your data base.
Jolly
Jolly Bill said
Michael,SN 38651 and 39637 are standard S, L and LR short fore end models and both have the flat muzzle. I think you have the rest of the info in your data base.
Jolly
I got both of those JB. Thanks so much.
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
Not sure if this will help, but factory drawing for barrel show’s a revision date of October 14th, 1938 for the change from flat face to crowned muzzle.
Steve
seewin said
Not sure if this will help, but factory drawing for barrel show’s a revision date of October 14th, 1938 for the change from flat face to crowned muzzle.Steve
Hello Steve,
Yes indeed that is a help. Do you have a PDF file of that drawing that you could pass on to me please?
Thanks so much.
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
seewin said
Not sure if this will help, but factory drawing for barrel show’s a revision date of October 14th, 1938 for the change from flat face to crowned muzzle.Steve
Steve,
Does the factory drawing specify the Model 61, or all Winchester barrels? Based on my surveys of the Model 64 and Model 71, that is the approximate date where they also went from uncrowned to crowned muzzles.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
I suspect that there will be a range of revision dates for the various models during that mid-late 1930’s era. The Model 67 was introduced in 1934 already with a 1/8″ muzzle crown, as was the Model 69 in 1935 whereas the Model 60A Target which was introduced in 1932 maintained a flat crown until the end of production in 1939. Just from my observations it seems as if the new .22 designs after 1933 came with a crowned muzzle and Winchester then worked backwards through the line to update the existing models at their convenience (which spanned a number of years).
Just my thoughts.
Best Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
I just put this 61 in the survey, the muzzle is not crowned, it is perfectly flat. Hope this helps.
I guess it would help to give you the serial # of my 61. It is #39756. It has a flat muzzle. I was reading the Winchester handbook by Bill West and it said that 61’s with serials under 35000 had the 11 groove slide handles and they went to the 17 groove handles after that. Mine is a much higher number than that and has the 11 groove handle. Of course in 1939 they made 6200+ guns that year.
Bert H. said
Steve,
Does the factory drawing specify the Model 61, or all Winchester barrels? Based on my surveys of the Model 64 and Model 71, that is the approximate date where they also went from uncrowned to crowned muzzles.
Bert
Bert, it was a model specific (model 61) barrel drawing dated 1930.
Steve
Winchester nut said
I guess it would help to give you the serial # of my 61. It is #39756. It has a flat muzzle. I was reading the Winchester handbook by Bill West and it said that 61’s with serials under 35000 had the 11 groove slide handles and they went to the 17 groove handles after that. Mine is a much higher number than that and has the 11 groove handle. Of course in 1939 they made 6200+ guns that year.
The change from the short to long slide handle is much closer to SN 41000 on the Short Long and Long Rifle configured rifles. BUT, The OB .22 WRF change at an earlier SN.
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
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