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August 11, 2015
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All,
I have an opportunity to purchase a couple of 1886 models that are both in very good condition. one is a standard sporting rifle caliber 38-56 and the other is a fancy sporting rifle in caliber 40-82.
The standard rifle has some of the most vivid cased coloring I have seen, while the fancy rifle has a diminished cased coloring which is bright but lacks the coloring. I am confident that both are all original.
My question is really how does one rate cased coloring and what impact would it have on the overall condition and subsequent value. My apologies for no photos, but none are available at this time. Am hoping to get another peak at both rifles in the near future and may get a chance to snap a couple of pics.
Just curious as to what others think and treasure regarding overall condition versus special features.
Thanks
Mark,
“Vivid” case colors on a 100 year old Winchester cause concern/suspicion on my part. Does the rest of the rifle look like it is new? If not, that too is a suspicious. Even if the entire rifle looks like it left the factory yesterday, that causes me to question “how” is that possible. Frankly, I would be much more concerned about a “standard” rifle looking like it was never touched or handled than one of the Fancy Sporting Rifles.
If the case colors are original, the brighter they are, the higher the value will be.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Mark,
You rate case color just like you do bluing. You rate the coverage by percentage based on the amount of color coverage. Case color can have several states of wear or age, Bright color, faded color, modeled (you can see the pattern but it has no color) and then its just silver. Case color can also get a salt and pepper appearance with bad storage. A old guns value is determined by its rarity. The better its condition the more rare it is as with its features. A gun with lots of bright case colors is very desirable but like Bert said it can be too good. Pictures are the only way to tell for sure what you got.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
August 11, 2015
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Thanks for the feedback. Never really thought about the notion of a standard gun being treated differently than a special order gun, but makes a lot of sense.
I am going to try and get some pictures to show everyone. Probably wont happen until the rig count in west texas slows down a bit. I am very interested in this as I really struggle with the finish and condition on any gun. Almost prefer to purchase a gun that has no finish left and at least then you can have confidence that it was not refurbished! Probably just another hurdle along the way of getting better at identifying originality
Regards,
Mark,
My favorite Winchesters have between 70% and 90% original finish on them. Once the finish level gets above 90%, I get nervous as heck, and tend to get overly critical in my inspection of said gun. I only own a handful of old Winchesters (out of 70 ) that grade well above the 90% mark, and that is intentional on my part.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
January 26, 2011
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Bert H. said
Mark,
My favorite Winchesters have between 70% and 90% original finish on them. Once the finish level gets above 90%, I get nervous as heck, and tend to get overly critical in my inspection of said gun. I only own a handful of old Winchesters (out of 70 ) that grade well above the 90% mark, and that is intentional on my part.
Bert
Bert
I totally agree with the 70-90% window of condition, for many reasons. To me, they actually look a little nicer than a 95%+ gun, I like some edge wear for contrast. You also get a much better feeling about originality. Lastly they are easier on my checkbook,…….. the best part for sure.
~Gary~
November 7, 2015
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Looking forward to some pics. I’m a big fan of 70-80% guns…probably because I can afford them and can be pretty confident that they’re honest guns. I’ve learned from Bert et al that 80-90% guns are better investments so I’ll be trying to upgrade my collection as finances permit…and the rig counts in S Denton county may help with that!
August 11, 2015
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know what you mean! been working on that issue but in a different area.
will get some more detail in a couple of weeks and appreciate everyone’s feedback.
regards,
A lot of good information shared here.
Being a big 1886 fan, I hope you can get some photos.
Winchester Model 1873 44-40 circa 1886
November 7, 2015
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Kevin Jones said
A lot of good information shared here.Being a big 1886 fan, I hope you can get some photos.
Yep. Thinking pretty seriously about adding an 1886 to the herd in Cody. Y’all keep these 1886 threads coming. I’ve got a lot to learn before I shell out that kind of cash.
August 11, 2015
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Passed on both. One gun was a fancy deluxe that went for $18,000 and the one with the really nice cased color hardening, believe it to be original, went for $5500. the last one had a couple of extra holes drilled in it for a peep sight; otherwise it was pretty nice! the deluxe rifle was a 40-82 caliber and the standard rifle was a 38-56, sn 24840 and 86434 respectively.
you can view them at the A&S Auction in Waco Texas on their website.
regards,
November 7, 2015
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I think A&S hosted the TGCA show last year. Seem like some pretty good folks.
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