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Gentlemen:
First off I am a Newbie here; and not actually a Winchester collector. I have been a collector (more like a “gatherer”) of military bolt action carbines from Nations all around the world for the last 45 years. If it has a 17″-20″ barrel, and combined with a full length Mannlicher stock; I’ve got to have it. I have always believed in preserving them in original condition. No customizing, alterations, or refinishing/rebluing them. Only maintaining the wood with linseed oil or “Gunny Paste”.
I recently was offered a model ’94 .30WCF carbine made during WWII according to the serial number. I have one that I bought new in 1969; but was never really impressed with the smoothness/quality of the action. I first said “No thanks” until I cycled the action….it was like butter. Had to have it! The blue on receiver is getting thin, like from being carried in a left hand. Rest of the bluing is about 95%. Bore is excellent, and was well maintained. All wood is near excellent; except 98% of the finish is gone. It appears to have been varnish, or a type of lacquer, as there are only small patches left that are coming off in tiny flakes. The wood looks like it hung in a sunny window or back glass of a truck for many years and is faded out and very dry. I would like to feed/preserve it and spruce it up a little, but don’t want to hurt it’s value or originality. I started to rub it down with “Gunny Paste” as that isn’t a permanent type finish, and is a correct wood treatment/preservative for firearms from that time period; but got “cold feet” and decided I better check with some Winchester collectors first.
In your opinions; what should I do……anything…….or just leave it alone.
Many thanks in advance-
PS: Just happened to think some of you may not be familiar with Gunny Paste. It is a blend of BLO (boiled linseed oil), turpentine, and beeswax supposedly concocted by an old USMC Gunnery Sergeant. My Dad said he used it when he went in the Corp in the late 1930’s. Just rub it in by hand real good, and buff it off with a rag.
Hello,
If you have a WW II production Model 94, it is one of a very small number made during that time period. Winchester shutdown production of the Model 94 in August of 1942, and did not resume production until September 1945. The serial number on your Carbine will tell us when it was manufactured.
I doubt that the “Gunny Paste” will harm the wood, so go ahead and give it a try.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert:
Many thanks for the prompt reply. The serial number is 13534XX. The man who sold it to me said someone (don’t remember who) in his family bought it during the war and was extremely lucky, and glad, to get it. I kind of doubted they were making any civilian rifles at that time; and decided to try and look it up one day. The on-line chart I found a couple of years ago showed it was made between 1943 and 1948; but said the factory records during those wartime years didn’t show the breakdown in number range for each year. I guess being it was one of the few made during the war may give it a little more value or interest.
Why the “XX” in the serial number?
Model 94 serial number 1352066 was the last one manufactured in December of 1945. Serial number 1353400 was manufactured in January of 1946, after the War ended.
The online chart you found is not accurate, as there are records all the way through December 29th, 1945.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert:
Again, many thanks. That makes more since, and probably would have been in January of ’46 as it is in the low 400 range. I remember my folks, and others, talking about how hard it was to get things during the war, and for months after it ended. I guess his family history “recollection” of war shortages continued for several more months, and ended up as “during the war”. I am glad to find out before I misled anyone. It is really one really nice little rifle, and the workmanship is so far above the 1969 model it is hard to believe they came from the same company/factory. I finally saw why people fell in love with them.
Bert H. said
Hello,
If you have a WW II production Model 94, it is one of a very small number made during that time period. Winchester shutdown production of the Model 94 in August of 1942, and did not resume production until September 1945. The serial number on your Carbine will tell us when it was manufactured.
I doubt that the “Gunny Paste” will harm the wood, so go ahead and give it a try.
Bert
Bert,
Very interesting about the WW II model 94 production numbers. I have two made during the “war years”. One is SN #1317178 (30 WCF), and the other is SN#1252952 (32 WS). I know SN #1317178 was made in 1942, and SN#1252952 was made in 1940, but can you tell me what months?
Interestingly enough, the 1942 model 94 was once owned by the PA State Police.
Thanks, as always.
Al
Al,
1252952 = November 1940
1317178 = January 1942
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
Al,
1252952 = November 1940
1317178 = January 1942
Bert
Thanks Bert. Any idea how many were made between January and August of 1942?
29,882 were manufactured in the year 1942, as opposed to the 53,738 manufactured in 1941.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
tionesta1 said
thanks Bert
You are quite welcome.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert:
I was checking back tonight to see if anyone else had any ideas or input on what type finish (if any) I should put on the stock to protect it; and thought I would ask where you got your serial number range/date of production for future reference if the occasion arises.
After reading your post last night I went back and found the 2 sites I had checked a couple years ago; plus 3 new ones; and all say/show the same thing; that the serial numbers from 1221289 to 1500000 can’t be broken down by year because “records don’t exist”. The first one is straight from Winchester’s own site and info. I am not doubting your info; just curious why one site has it, and others don’t; and I might need it again for something.
The sites I checked:
http://www.winchesterguns.com/customerservice/qna/detail.asp?id=296
http://guncollectionsonline.com/winchestermodel94.htm
http://www.cruffler.com/ProductionDataPages/Winchester/Model1894.html
http://www.oldguns.net/sn_php/windateslookup.php?file=win1894.dat
The polishing room records have the date the receiver had the serial number applied. They go up to serial 1352066
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
SwampFox said
Bert:
I was checking back tonight to see if anyone else had any ideas or input on what type finish (if any) I should put on the stock to protect it; and thought I would ask where you got your serial number range/date of production for future reference if the occasion arises.
After reading your post last night I went back and found the 2 sites I had checked a couple years ago; plus 3 new ones; and all say/show the same thing; that the serial numbers from 1221289 to 1500000 can’t be broken down by year because “records don’t exist”. The first one is straight from Winchester’s own site and info. I am not doubting your info; just curious why one site has it, and others don’t; and I might need it again for something.
The sites I checked:
http://www.winchesterguns.com/customerservice/qna/detail.asp?id=296
http://guncollectionsonline.com/winchestermodel94.htm
http://www.cruffler.com/ProductionDataPages/Winchester/Model1894.html
http://www.oldguns.net/sn_php/windateslookup.php?file=win1894.dat
None of the websites you mention has access to the actual Winchester factory records. The so called “Winchester” website is actually owned by Browning Arms. If you want accurate information, use the serial number look-up table here on the WACA website, or contact the Cody Firearms Museum records office and pay them $40 for the letter. As the WACA historian, I have verified the information in the original Winchester records.
https://winchestercollector.org/dates/
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert:
Talk about feeling like a “Dumb A$$”. Good thing your WACA site “date look-up” wasn’t a snake; or I would have gotten bit. I hadn’t really looked around at all the features the other night when I signed up to ask about the stock finish. I will have to take the time to do that, and take advantage of all it’s info and features. Again, many thanks!!…and I guess maybe an old dog/dinosaur maybe can learn a new trick or two.
SwampFox said
Gentlemen:
First off I am a Newbie here; and not actually a Winchester collector. I have been a collector (more like a “gatherer”) of military bolt action carbines from Nations all around the world for the last 45 years. If it has a 17″-20″ barrel, and combined with a full length Mannlicher stock; I’ve got to have it. I have always believed in preserving them in original condition. No customizing, alterations, or refinishing/rebluing them. Only maintaining the wood with linseed oil or “Gunny Paste”.
I recently was offered a model ’94 .30WCF carbine made during WWII according to the serial number. I have one that I bought new in 1969; but was never really impressed with the smoothness/quality of the action. I first said “No thanks” until I cycled the action….it was like butter. Had to have it! The blue on receiver is getting thin, like from being carried in a left hand. Rest of the bluing is about 95%. Bore is excellent, and was well maintained. All wood is near excellent; except 98% of the finish is gone. It appears to have been varnish, or a type of lacquer, as there are only small patches left that are coming off in tiny flakes. The wood looks like it hung in a sunny window or back glass of a truck for many years and is faded out and very dry. I would like to feed/preserve it and spruce it up a little, but don’t want to hurt it’s value or originality. I started to rub it down with “Gunny Paste” as that isn’t a permanent type finish, and is a correct wood treatment/preservative for firearms from that time period; but got “cold feet” and decided I better check with some Winchester collectors first.
In your opinions; what should I do……anything…….or just leave it alone.
Many thanks in advance-
PS: Just happened to think some of you may not be familiar with Gunny Paste. It is a blend of BLO (boiled linseed oil), turpentine, and beeswax supposedly concocted by an old USMC Gunnery Sergeant. My Dad said he used it when he went in the Corp in the late 1930’s. Just rub it in by hand real good, and buff it off with a rag.
Hi. Interesting post. I have a Winchester M1 paratrooper carbine serial# 1281165 which I inherited from my Dad provenance unknown and am interested in info on year made, value, etc. How can I check for date of manufacture via serial #.
Also have a Japanese Arisaka rifle with chyrsanthnum stamp and bayonet. This rifle’s provenance I know as my Dad brought it back from Okinawa. Still has the stand and original sling. Any info on it would be helpful.
Woodie said
Hi. Interesting post. I have a Winchester M1 paratrooper carbine serial# 1281165 which I inherited from my Dad provenance unknown and am interested in info on year made, value, etc. How can I check for date of manufacture via serial #.
Also have a Japanese Arisaka rifle with chyrsanthnum stamp and bayonet. This rifle’s provenance I know as my Dad brought it back from Okinawa. Still has the stand and original sling. Any info on it would be helpful.
Hello Woodie,
This website and forum deals with collectable Winchester firearms only. You will need to find a different website forum to discuss your Japaneses Arisake rifle.
I do not believe that we attempted to cover the Winchester M1 Carbines or the Winchester M1 Garands in our serial number look-up tables, but possibly one of our forum members can help you with it.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
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