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Restore vs Refurbish
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November 20, 2014 - 7:41 pm
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Attached are before and after photos of my most recent refurbishing project, an 1886 Winchester vintage 1888.  This is a shooter, not a collector’s item.

1)  Removed 100+ years of dirty and darkened linseed oil finish from the buttstock and forearm but left the stain.  Repaired a missing sliver of wood from the buttstock at the lower tang with a piece of walnut cannibalized from a 140 year old damaged stock.  Then steamed out the worst of the dents and applied 15 coats of tung oil thinned out with pure mineral spirits.

2)  Carded off the rust on all metal surfaces and left the receiver, fore end cap, lever, lower tang and buttplate as is.  Removed years of oil and dirt goo from all lettering on barrel and lower tang.

3)  Refurbished the barrel and magazine tube with Van’s Instant Gun Blue.

4)  The hammer would not remain cocked when cycling the lever.  Replaced damaged hammer (this rifle has a single set trigger) from Gunbroker and replaced the altered sear with a new one from Buckingham’s.  Now the hammer remains cocked when the lever is cycled, the safety notch engages the hammer properly and the set trigger will hold the hammer cocked when the rifle is bumped.

5)  Replaced all exterior screws with new ones from Homestead.

Now this oldie is all dressed up and ready to go out to the range.

So, is this heresy or practicality?

 

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1876-4-1.jpg

"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend." 

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November 26, 2014 - 5:39 pm
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I wish my 1886 looked even as nice as your starting point! 

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November 30, 2014 - 1:40 pm
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My two cents ,and that’s all its worth ,You did the old rifle a world of good! Once the Original finish is gone ,I think it is our obligation as caretakers of these old guns to preserve them as best as we can, for the future. What caliber is the old rifle and how did it do at the range? ,,,,, IMHO,,,,DT

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November 30, 2014 - 3:25 pm
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45-70 Government.

So far I haven’t settled on the best load yet.  Got the sights to where I’m hitting paper consistently at 100 yards but need to find the right load now.  Tried 292 grains lead bullet with 38.0 grains of AA 5744, then 38.5, 39.0, 39.5 and 40.0.  Also tried 405 grains lead bullet with 32.0 through 34.0 in half grain increments.  Both bullets are sized to .458 and so far the lighter loadings of the 292 grain bullet show the most potential for accuracy.  I only loaded 10 of each, mostly trying to sight in the rifle as I had removed both front and rear sights.  Also had 10 rounds of 292 lead with 17.5 grains of Unique left from some years ago.  That load seemed to have a little more kick.

The 292/38.5 combination averaged almost right at 1700 fps ranging from 1677 to 1708.

Will refine those loads some more this week.

1876-4-1.jpg

"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend." 

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November 30, 2014 - 6:19 pm
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Seems like you just cleaned her up and replaced some screws and buggered parts.  Nothing immoral about that!

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December 1, 2014 - 4:30 pm
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Very fine looking ’86. I am wondering about your 405 grain load. I have an original ’86 45-70 as well, shipped in 1890, and use 26 grains of 5744 under a 405 plain base cast bullet to get 1,370 fps at 28 degrees Celsius. Your 405 grain loads look to be a little fast to me at 32 to 34 grains. They must be leaving the barrel at a very good clip; I’d be worried about the peak pressure they are generating. My 26 grain load is very accurate, giving 5-shot groups of around 2″ at 100 yards and around 4″ at 200 yards.

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December 1, 2014 - 5:05 pm
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Good advice on the 405 loads.  According to Lyman’s Cast Bullet Handbook, the most accurate load for the 405 in an 1886 is AA 5744 at the starting load of 31.5 grains and 1421 fps.  Slower is often more accurate in these old bores.  I’ll be sticking to the 292 grain bullet though, as I’ve been casting that one for some 40+ years and only used the 405 as I have a store-bought supply acquired last year when my old melting pot went bad.

May just fire the rest of my 405 loads out of an 1885 High Wall replica.

1876-4-1.jpg

"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend." 

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December 1, 2014 - 7:11 pm
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I guess it depends upon the hardness of the bullet. I just air-cool mine and they are made from pure clip-on wheel weights, so they are fairly soft. Accuracy starts going down the drain as I approach 1,500 fps. If the bullets are water cooled, they will be a lot harder and can take higher velocities. Most commercial cast bullets are pretty hard. Data I have from Accurate Arms Ballistics Lab gives a maximum load of 34 grains of 5744 under a 405 grain gas checked bullet for a pressure of 27.8 kPsi and a velocity of 1,600 fps. They do not state the temperature, but I would assume room temperatures. I find that the burn rate of 5744 (as most powders) increases with temperature, so if one is shooting at, say 90 degrees F, a 34 grain charge of 5744 will be over the max pressure. My problem up here is not hot temperatures, but cold ones, where the burn rate of 5744 drops considerably when the temperature gets down to freezing or below.

Your 292 grain ballistics looks to be not that far off of the original HV load that Winchester put out. You will certainly get a flatter trajectory with that. I shoot mostly 405 grain bullets, but would like to start working with 300 grainers.

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December 1, 2014 - 7:23 pm
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I use a Lyman mold, # 457191, that I got some 40 years ago, for the 292 grain projectile.  Only problem is it is a single cavity mold which becomes a slow process when casting lots of bullets.  I’ve gotten spoiled with the newer double cavity molds!

1876-4-1.jpg

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December 1, 2014 - 10:27 pm
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By gum, I had one of those for casting bullets for my Model 1876 45-60. Fortunately, I still have some bullets to try out next spring.

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May 27, 2016 - 4:15 am
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I know this a two year old post but I am up late with nothing to do, but these are the questions I have bout these type of guns because they are mainly the type in my budget. with the exception of changing screw, what did this refurbishment do to the value of this gun? removing the oil and repairing sliver of wood? the cold bluing of barrel and feeder tube? and how did you remove the 100+ of oil. does steaming the dents out of the wood leave any sign of “repair” is that acceptable or possibly mis representing?

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May 30, 2016 - 3:55 am
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Patrick,

In response to your question, the rifle in question had virtually No collector value before it was refurbished, and it still doesn’t.  However, it does look a lot better now, and might have gained a few hundred $$$ in value.  It is a “shooter” grade rifle, but now in better shape than it was.

Bert

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May 30, 2016 - 4:22 am
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patrick tompkins said
I know this a two year old post but I am up late with nothing to do, but these are the questions I have bout these type of guns because they are mainly the type in my budget. with the exception of changing screw, what did this refurbishment do to the value of this gun? removing the oil and repairing sliver of wood? the cold bluing of barrel and feeder tube? and how did you remove the 100+ of oil. does steaming the dents out of the wood leave any sign of “repair” is that acceptable or possibly mis representing?  

I know your questions are not ddirected to me, but I restore/repair Winchester rimfire 22’s. In answering your questions keep in mind they are my opinions. Repairing wood is more restoration then replacing the stock. Steaming out dents works well as often as not, and takes patients. Sometimes its undetectable. Trying to get a fine a finish as factory, well haven’t achieved or seen it achieved. ..yet. I have taken beat barrels and draw filled out craters, brought back to white metal and both cold blued and rust blued. Years of oil are not hard to remove from metal. I try not to harm the wood when cleaning. I feel the traces of oil and the stains add character and keep history in the stock. All work is obvious, to most, and never misrepresented as original. Does it add value? Yes,to me. These guns are shooters and who doesn’t want a good looking shooter? Some people have original safe queens, these are range queens.

Vince
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 “There is but one answer to be made to the dynamite bomb and that can best be made by the Winchester rifle.”

Teddy Roosevelt 

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