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Removing coats of X from stocks
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April 11, 2017 - 10:03 pm
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From what I can see in the photos it looks like you are down to the bare walnut wood color itself, with no stain left.  It also looks like there are some small age cracks on the surface of the wood.  If it were my project, here’s how I would continue:

First, though the wood looks great, I’d get some color back into it.  For that I use 1/2 tsp alkanet powder mixed into a 1 oz. denatured alcohol in a glass hobby jar.  http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-oz-ALKANET-ROOT-POWDER-Batschia-canescens-/322176971301?hash=item4b033e7225:g:Gz0AAOSwvg9Xd0em  (1 oz. will finish 10 or more stocks.)  Apply the stain to the wood with a pure cotton cleaning patch, or a 1 1/2″ square of cut old towel.  I make sure it is cotton that won’t catch on snags.  A couple of coats applied 10 minutes apart should be enough.

Without being able to tell how rough those cracks are I think some very fine sanding is in order.  I would use 3M foam sanding blocks, 220 then 320 grit, very lightly over the cracked area only.  DO NOT SAND CLOSE TO THE RECEIVER OR BUTTPLATE END OF THE WOOD as that will ruin the “proud” aspect of the wood to metal fit.  There will be some pure walnut powder generated and I save that to fill in the cracks.  The reason I use the 3M pads is that there is only wood powder generated, without any sand flaking off the sandpaper and mixing in with the wood.  Another application of the stain over the sanded area might be appropriate now if the sanding lightened that part of the wood, but probably not necessary.

Now comes the finishing.  I mix tung oil 1:1 with mineral spirits in a 1 oz. jar and add a 1/2 teaspoon of alkanet.  (Despite what can be found on some of the forums, there is no need to let the alkanet age in the tung oil.  It can be used immediately.)   Using one of the aforementioned cotton squares, I apply a coat of the finish mixture to the wood.  Forearms will stand by themselves on a workbench and buttstocks I hang with a wire clothes hanger cut in half, with the cut end going through the tang screw hole.  After about an hour drying time I take the wood and hand rub it in the palm of my hands for about 5 minutes on each side, until I feel the wood warming.  Then let it set for 24 hours.  Repeat on day 2, but this is where I add the wood filler saved from sanding.  After applying the finish and letting the work sit for about an hour I use my finger tips to rub in some of the wood powder into the cracks and then proceed to hand rub the wood.  Continue the daily procedure for up to 5 days.

At the end of the 5 days one can start to see what the final work will look like.  After 5 days I change to formula to 1:2 tung oil and mineral spirits.  Also, I allow 2 days drying time between coats.  (Keep in mind that I live in central New Mexico where the humidity averages around 10% and in the summer my garage, where the work hangs to dry, gets well over 100° during the hottest part of the day.) 

The number of coats needed will vary from project to project but I have found that new wood requires at least 15 coats and refinished wood usually looks great somewhere between 7 and 10 coats. 

If the finish starts to look uneven or if it is getting too glossy one can rub it down gently with steel wool, but I prefer brass wool as that won’t leave any shavings stuck in the finish. 

I developed this process myself though trial and error over the years but I have to give credit to Mike Hunter on this forum for steering me to alkanet.  This post found subsequently was also helpful:  http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=215

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April 12, 2017 - 12:58 am
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Wincacher,

Thanks for the recommendation.  I believe this is the direction I need to move.  I actually found some Alkanet root powder here in Denver so I should be ready to go.  Looks good. Very fine grind. 

– When applying the Alkanet initially, how close to the desired color should be attained.  I’m sure the Alkanet tinted Tung oil treatments will gradually deliver the desired finish.  Is this correct?  Is Alkanet used to tint the oil in all the oil treatments applications?

– I think a little sanding & filling would be appropriate for the age cracks.  If I understand correctly you work a little dry powder into the cracks after applying the oil to the stock and let it sit.  I envision a little paste would form with the oil and fill the crack.  Is this correct?

– I understand the oil should be used sparingly to deliver a smooth finish.  If needed, where do you get brass wool?  I have never used it. 

 

I am excited to get started and see the results.

 

Thanks

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April 12, 2017 - 1:44 pm
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Jim,

You are right about the tung/alkanet coats slowly adding color.  I’d put 2 “stain” coats on and then the finish.  You will be able to see the color                         progression as you work on the stock and will know when you have achieved the color you want.  On 2 occasions I have switched to uncolored                  tung oil/mineral spirits but both times that was after the 10th coat.

Correct on the crack filler.

Several times I’ve had to use the brass wool between coats, but that has always been after the 5th coat.  Also, after hand rubbing the finish                      make sure there are no fingerprints on the oil as these tend to show up, again usually after the 5th coat.

The brass wool is kind of pricey but will last a long time if only used sparingly for cutting the gloss between coats.  The last time I ordered                          some it was from:

http://homesteadparts.com/shopcart/commerce.cgi?cart_id=1492002197.1221&product=Gunsmith_Tools_Refinishing_Products_Winchester_1890_Winchester_1906_Winchester_62_winchester_62A_Winchester_1873_Winchester_1866_Winchester_1876_Winchester_1886_Winchester_1892_Winchester_1894_Winchester_1895_Winchester_70_Winchester_61_Winchester_63_Winchester_69_Winchester_53_Winchester_64_Winchester_55_Winchester_mod_12_Winchester_94_POST_64_Marlin_Remington_model_12_Remington_model_11_Remington_model_31_Remington_Jimenez_Bryco_Jennings_22_and_25_Jimenez_380_Jennings_Bryco_model_38_Jennings_Bryco_model_48_and_T380_Jennings_Bryco_model_58_and_59_Jimenez_9mm_Bryco_Jennings_model_9&pid=2246

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April 12, 2017 - 1:56 pm
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Thanks Wincacher,

Several lines of your post were cut off for some reason.  Have a look on your end when you have time.

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April 12, 2017 - 2:37 pm
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Something has gone haywire with the formatting on my browser. Can highlight and copy

and paste but can’t get the whole lines to show.

Will try again:

Jim:

You are right about the tung/alkanet coats slowly adding color. I’d put 2 “stain” coats on and

then the finish.  You will be able to see the color progression as you work on the stock and

will know when you have achieved the color you want.  On 2 occasions I have switched to

uncolored tung oil/mineral spirits but both times that was after the 10th coat.

Correct on the crack filler.

Several times I’ve had to use the brass wool between coats to cut down the gloss, but that

has always been after the 5th coat.  Also, after hand rubbing the finish make sure there are

no fingerprints on the oil as these tend to show up, again, usually after the 5th coat.

The brass wool is kind of pricey but will last a long time if only used sparingly for cutting

down the gloss between coats.  The last time I ordered some it was from:

http://homesteadparts.com/shopcart/commerce.cgi?cart_id=1492005422.1549&product=Gunsmith_Tools_Refinishing_Products_Winchester_1890_Winchester_1906_Winchester_62_winchester_62A_Winchester_1873_Winchester_1866_Winchester_1876_Winchester_1886_Winchester_1892_Winchester_1894_Winchester_1895_Winchester_70_Winchester_61_Winchester_63_Winchester_69_Winchester_53_Winchester_64_Winchester_55_Winchester_mod_12_Winchester_94_POST_64_Marlin_Remington_model_12_Remington_model_11_Remington_model_31_Remington_Jimenez_Bryco_Jennings_22_and_25_Jimenez_380_Jennings_Bryco_model_38_Jennings_Bryco_model_48_and_T380_Jennings_Bryco_model_58_and_59_Jimenez_9mm_Bryco_Jennings_model_9&pid=2246

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April 12, 2017 - 6:17 pm
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Thanks again Wincacher.  Great information. I will report back on my progress. 

Jim

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April 13, 2017 - 6:18 pm
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Wayne,
Thank you for the wealth of information you are sharing. I have not been real happy with the results I have gotten from tung oil. Now I see where I’ve gone wrong.

I assume I can use a drying cabinet between coats, as it will be damp and cold in Oregon when I start on some of the work ahead. Can’t wait to see final finish photos when we all complete our projects.

I just love taking mistreated or poorly restored steel and walnut, and bringing back some of its original beauty. I wish I had learned to carve wooden my younger days. I’ve got some Oregon madrone, myrtle wood, and laurel with some nice colors and grain.

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April 21, 2017 - 10:53 pm
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Hello Wincacher,

Update on my project:

– First photo is untreated stock. 

– Applied 3 treatments of Alkanet / D. alcohol ( 1/2 tsp / 1 oz. D.A. ).  Result shown in second photo. 

– Applied 2 treatments of Tung oil / M.S. / Alkanet  ( 1/2 tsp / 1oz of 1:1 mix T.O. & M.S.).  First treatment soaked in rapidly and felt virtually dry on the palm rub after an hour.  Second treatment was a little more oily after an hour.  Waited 24 hours between applications.  (Approx 65 degrees)  Felt dry to the touch.  Results are shown in third and fourth photos. 

– Right or wrong, I decided not to sand the stock.  Wasn’t comfortable with it and surface felt good to the touch. 

Questions:

Getting color in the wood very nicely and quickly.  Does this color progression look typical after the treatment described?  I am trying to decide when to discontinue Alkanet, cut it back or ???

Getting nice grain contrast and want to maintain this contrast.  In your experience do you think continuing Alkanet will jeopardize this effect or will it just get better?

?image-2.jpegImage Enlargerimage-3.jpegImage Enlargerimage-4.jpegImage Enlargerimage-5.jpegImage Enlarger

 

Thanks,

Jim

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April 21, 2017 - 11:06 pm
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Jim,

Your progress looks really nice.

It’s hard to tell for sure but I’m quite sure that each succeeding coat of alkanet/tung oil adds a decreasing amount of color while continuing to add oil finish to the stock.  I only remember switching to tung oil without alkanet once and that was a new stock sometime after the 10th coat.  Your best bet is to continue until you feel the color is just right for you.

Also, your experience after the first coat is the same as mine have been.  Also, some of the tung oil will work into the tiny cracks and reduce them a little.

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April 22, 2017 - 3:16 am
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Thanks Wincacher.  

It makes sense that incremental coloration might diminish since penetration is being reduced on subsequent applications. The oil and Alkanet coloration have really made the grain stand out already.  Excited to see the results ahead!

I found the brass wool at Homestead.  Thanks for that lead. 

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April 25, 2017 - 12:09 am
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Wincacher,

I had in my head that after the 5th treatment you enrich the TO in the mixture.  As I read closer it appears that you actually dilute the TO to a ratio of 1 part TO to 2 parts MS while maintaining Alkanet at 1/2 tsp. (1oz batch)

Can you clarify this for me?

Thanks,

Jim

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April 25, 2017 - 2:11 am
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I had read in a few places some time ago that suggested enriching the mixture after the first few coats.  Since tung oil is extremely slow drying it made more sense to me to DILUTE the mixture as the whole purpose of diluting is to add drying agents to the mix.  I’ve been diluting ever since I started using tung oil and it has worked for me.

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April 25, 2017 - 1:43 pm
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 Wincacher.  

Not sure why I had the “enriching” approach in my head.  I like your approach particularly in light of your results!!!  It makes sense that more applications of a thinner, penetrating formula will keep the finish more even and avoid a “coating” type approach by enriching the oil content.

Thanks,

Jim

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May 23, 2017 - 10:06 pm
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Wincacher,

I have attached a picture of my stock after a total 12 applications of TO/ MS/ Alkanet as previously discussed.  Rubbed down with brass wool after the 5th, 7th & 10th applications.  I really like the results and look forward putting the rifle back together.  

The finish is not as glossy as what the picture indicates.  I am however thinking about a final light buff with v-fine brass wool.  In your experience, does a final light buffing provide a desireable result?

Thanks,

Jim

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May 23, 2017 - 11:01 pm
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Photo?

After that many coats a final buffing will lessen the shine and give the finish a satin look and feel. 

I have one hanging now that has 5 coats so far and will probably need less than 10.  It is new wood from CPA for an 1885 High Wall.

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May 24, 2017 - 12:42 am
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Having trouble uploading photo.  Will try again tomorrow.  

Interesting that you have new wood that will require fewer applications.  Is it walnut?

Wasn’t sure when to call it quits on my project however grain was looking good and drying time was extending.  Wanted to avoid surface build up.  I think I will give it a final buff to smooth it out. 

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May 24, 2017 - 3:05 am
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I was surprised that the new wood isn’t requiring as many coats as usual.  This is wood from CPA, not particularly anything special about the grain, but it seemed to be heavier than other semi-inletted stocks I’ve used in the past.  I think this wood is denser than usual and it is walnut.  Will post a photo of 5 coats tomorrow.

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May 24, 2017 - 9:35 pm
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DSCN0019.JPGImage EnlargerDSCN0020.JPGImage Enlarger

5 coats.  Probably only 2 or 3 more for this very dense walnut.

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May 29, 2017 - 3:17 am
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Wincacher,

Finally able to upload photos although not as professional as yours 🙂  Your recent pictures look great!  

After these photos were taken, I gently rubbed the stock with SF brass wool which resulted in a nice satin finish and feel as you described.  Very happy with the result and was a very gratifying project.  The finish suits the character of the old rifle very well.

Cheers!

 

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Slightly different situation; after cleaning an old oil finished 1894 with mineral spirits the finish looks a bit dry. I’m trying to avoid the appearance of refinishing, merely want to apply a “maintenance” coat of oil. I’m thinking Tru-Oil either straight or reduced with mineral spirits. Wood is a bit banged up but not abused, I’d like to preserve that and the dark spots rather than try to remove them. I’m thinking some version of linseed oil would give me the results I’m looking for but have only used the Birchwood Casey products and I’m not sure that will give me the results I’m looking for.

 

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